Author Topic: Teen programs are going to be around for a while  (Read 3303 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Teen programs are going to be around for a while
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2007, 11:56:24 AM »
Quote from: ""AtomicAnt""
Therein lies the danger. With people like Santa (an impressive range of degrees) and a refinement of the process to appear non-abusive, coercive persuasion could be become largely an accepted practice.



It already is.  

http://www.orange-papers.org/
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Teen programs are going to be around for a while
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2007, 12:04:39 PM »
http://web.archive.org/web/200306042023 ... ancel.html


PUBLIC HEALTH WARNING:
Addiction Recovery Groups (RG's)
are Hazardous to your Life, Your Health,
Your Mental Health, Your Liberty, Your Civil Rights,
Your Safety, Your Dignity, and Your Pursuit of Happiness!

     

    The addiction recovery group (RG) is an invention of Alcoholics Anonymous (AA), an expansionist, religious organization patterned after the now-defunct, evangelical Oxford Group. AA's 12-step philosophy conflicts sharply with all of the world's great religions, contradicts sound concepts of mental health, and has no legitimate place in any of the trusted helping professions.

     

    The 12-step program of Alcoholics Anonymous does not work with substance addictions, and poses serious risks to your health, safety, family relationships, and general well-being.

     

    For every person present at an AA meeting, there are a thousand absent who dropped out for various reasons. Did they all die of addictions? Are they miserable dry drunks? Hardly. Self-recovery is far more commonplace than recovery in RG's. About 80% of all who actually defeat their addictions do it without RG's or addiction treatment. They usually become normal, happy people.

    Abstinence simply means not drinking alcohol or using drugs. When people stop intoxicating themselves, they stop causing the related problems, and their other problems become manageable. Sobriety, within the recovery group movement, means conforming to the group's beliefs about life, love, and leisure. Recovery groups do not produce abstinence. They often discuss abstinence, usually calling it something else, like "sobriety," "serenity," or "rationality." When people do abstain, it is tentative, and the recovery group takes credit. When people "relapse," the group accepts no responsibility.

    A safe guess is that about 2% - 5% of those who try AA become consistently abstinent, and even those refuse to consider themselves permanently abstinent. The same figures apply to addiction treatment programs, which are little more than expensive introductions to AA, or exercises in pop-psychology, always with long-term "aftercare."

    AA declares that substance addiction is a disease that is chronic and fatal unless one submits to the 12-step program of AA. Part of that program involves proselytizing AA in society, convincing others that human beings, once addicted to a substance, are powerless to solve that problem independently from the 12-step program.

    AA's outrageous claims of effectiveness and universality preceded and overshadowed its own poor success record; by the time it became apparent that the 12-step program is worthless as a means to defeat addictions, energetic AAers had already achieved significant public relations victories. In the last few decades, recovery groups have gained immense popularity, and substance addiction has flourished everywhere.

    Responding to various political and economic pressures, federal, state, and local governments have adopted the RG format as a means to create a new social order. The result is that the mass media, the public health and social welfare systems, and the helping professions have accepted, in the complete absence of objective evidence, that addiction is a disease, that addicted people are victims of addictive disease, and that there are actually "treatments" for the disease of addiction.

     

    A Message for Public Administrators
    and Elected Officials

    So ingrained is AA's disease concept of addiction, that tax-suported public health messages declare that addiction is a disease, that addiction treatment works, and that if one is suffering from addiction to alcohol and drugs, one should urgently "get help," meaning to go to a meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous or its family-oriented clone, Al-Anon. Never has a public addiction agency recommended or even suggested that people troubled by alcohol or drug addiction should immediately and permanently discontinue the use of alcohol or drugs. Instead, it is simply assumed nowadays that anyone with a drug or alcohol problem is afflicted with addictive disease, and by definition incapable of self-recovery. Consequently, subtance abusers have little expectation of themselves to cease and desist from any further use of the offending substances. This is the first example of serious harm done to multitudes of addicted people by the government, the mass media, and by the helping professions.

    Rational Recovery urges you to avoid recovery groups of any type like the plague, because that is what they truly are. You can do much better on your own. To follow, are specific risks to your health, happiness, and safety posed by your government, the mass media, and by the health professions. These risks have been compiled from the direct, painful experience of many thousands of people who have called Rational Recovery in the last twelve years.

    No group meeting is confidential, but groupers convey that anonymity means the meetings are confidential. RG's are not confidential. They are public meetings, regardless of whether they are "closed" or open. Groupers are not trustworthy, and will readily use what they know about you against you. They value the unity of the group above any individual; they care for the program more than for the people who come for help.

    Recovery groupers, by their presence at meetings, expose the fact that they have not solved the problem of addiction. In other words, they are irresolute substance abusers, uncertain about whether they will drink or use drugs in the future,who have a need to transmit their own insecurity to newcomers. These are not people from whom to seek help, wisdom, or guidance of any kind.

     The recovery group is like a pool filled with non-swimmers. Whether you can swim or not, they will pull you down in order to survive.

    The groups serve to undermine your confidence that you can remain abstinent without their social support and the 12-step religious philosophy. They will predict, "You will drink again," each time you object to AA doctrine. The groups belittle self-inspired abstinence, calling that solution "the dry drunk," or a "pink cloud." AA does not believe in your ability to abstain from alcohol, nor your ability to think wisely or manage your personal affairs. Naturally, this supports your addiction and not you.

    RG's invariably define recovery as a group project, a process involving social support. They present some spiritual, religious, or psychological philosophy as an essential element in defeating an addiction, defining recovery as the outcome of a personal conversion to the group's beliefs or preconceived mindset. In a strange twist of logic, the disease concept regards addiction as a symptom of philosophical error, either spiritual or psychological. RG philosophies usually conflict sharply with traditional moral precepts, such as right and wrong, good and evil, or other original family values. Meetings focus entirely upon philosophical matters, never upon how to efficiently quit an addiction. In fact, the groups will prevent people from taking aggressive, independent action on the problem, labeling such behavior as "denial" or "dry-drunk" or "pink cloud" or "stinking thinking."
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Teen programs are going to be around for a while
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2007, 01:50:00 PM »
Hrms. Talk about ambivalence for me. I've got a BS in Psych from Georgia Tech. The project was oriented on the science of the field, not the clinical side.

I think it would be a fabulous idea for Programs to let genuine, independent researchers to have at them.

If they find some residential treatments that, with informed consent, actually help, great.

The history of medicine is that snake oil backed by the power of gullibility tends to be abusive.

Treatments backed by sound research have good documentation of the number of people who get harmed by the treatment. These tend to prompt informed consent laws.

More to the point, people who get treated without informed consent when there is good documentation, particularly teens, tend to sue. Lawyers salivate over unwilling patients, treated against their will, who bad outcomes from well-documented risks---even if the risks are fairly low.

I used to work for an ENT surgeon. One time he had a mom bring her 16 year old daughter in. Kid had recurrent throat infections over a short, recent time, including multiple cases of strep. They usually do tonsillectomies and adenoidectomies when a patient has that.

The daughter absolutely didn't want it done, the mother absolutely did and wanted my boss to do the surgery over her daughter's objections.

He flatly refused, telling the mother that he never did surgery on unconsenting teens regardless of what the law allowed because it just wasn't worth the lawsuit liability he would incur if he did.

Document the results, and these places' liability insurer (or in house legal department) will insist on fully informed, uncoerced consent of the teens before they take on a patient for residential treatment. The exception would be when the teens meet the criteria for adult involuntary commitment.

There may be specific treatments, specific "best practices," and  specific patient profiles for which inpatient residential therapy would be the best option.

Right now, one of the reasons it's a statistical worst is that the facilities are operating blind---without solid research to tell them what is helpful and what harmful and for which patients.

Still, history in medicine and psychology shows that scientific documentation of treatment outcomes not only improves treatment for consenting patients, but also firmly cements good informed consent practices.

If they want to finally let good, independent researchers in the door, great.

I'm not against residential care. I'm not against involuntary residential care. I just have standards for what constitutes quality, ethical care.

Julie
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Teen programs are going to be around for a while
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2007, 02:01:53 PM »
There is, BTW, one case in which an adult would not qualify for involuntary commitment in which I support involuntary commitment for a teen.

For adults, the criteria is imminent danger to self or others.

For teens, I have no problem including imminent, serious risk of significant criminal and civil legal liability to the parents.

However, I would prefer to have some laws changed so that informed consent would still be required for the teen to be put in residential care but refusal would move civil and criminal liability for the teen's actions onto the teen rather than the parents.

So, basically, if the teen drives drunk and kills somebody, or vandalizes somebody's house, the victim or next of kin could still sue, but they'd sue the teen and not the parents and would recover damages in the form of a lien against future earnings.

With power comes responsibility. If we're going to give teens the power to refuse consent to residential treatment, then we must also place adult responsibility for their own torts and crimes firmly upon the teen who refuses consent.

I'd also have no problem with a family court deciding whether the teen was mature enough to make that decision.

I also think the decision to refuse residential care should result in a new kind of emancipated minor. That is, the parents should have to pay child support---so that trying to stick your teen in a facility doesn't get you out of the financial obligation to support your minor child--but the kid should otherwise be neither the parents' responsibility nor their problem. The kid should also be fully legally able to work, execute binding contracts, get a driver's license, etc.

Give the parents of unmanageable kids who aren't an imminent danger to themselves or others an out from the legal liability. Give the kids of bad parents an out to live their lives---and responsibility for themselves.

Without real, rigorous research there can be no informed consent---either from the parents, the family court system, or the teen.

Julie
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Teen programs are going to be around for a while
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2007, 03:04:51 PM »
Ideally, if a teen refused consent where an adult couldn't be involuntarily committed, and if his parents objected, the procedure would be for the parents to file a motion in family court for the court to do its choice of either requiring treatment or emancipating the teen.

Then the court would interview the teen, with a standard of whether, if accused of a serious violent felony, the teen would qualify to be tried as an adult.

If the teen would qualify for adult responsibility in a trial for a serious crime, then the teen should also qualify to give or withhold consent.

In no case should a teen old enough to quit high school over his parents' objections be found to lack capacity for informed consent absent being an imminent danger to self or others at the adult standard.

The reason minor emancipation is so hard in most states is to keep the parents from using it to dodge their support obligations to their kids.

So if the kid refuses consent for care, you assess child support against the parents, you court-appoint a trustee to administer it, and you let the judge set that trustee's administration fee at a specific, reasonable amount that is all-inclusive of the trustee's services. This, BTW, ought to be being done with all guardians ad litem, but apparently frequently isn't.

The trustee's job would be to pay the kid's necessities of life bills and to dole out the other money in a way that's as hard as possible for the kid to screw up. Before everyone used spendthrift trusts as a dodge, the original spendthrift trusts were the way financially sane rich people provided for spoilt, irresponsible, ne'er-do-well relatives after said sane person died.

The difference is that if the kid gets sued and loses, the trustee can knock the kid's living expenses down to the barest necessities and start paying off the judgment. Any suits against said kid should be loser-pays (including legal fees) to avoid people picking the kid for a chump for frivolous claims.

This isn't so much to let a troubled kid turn life into a big party as it is to get the parents off that unlimited liability hook. Sure, they'd be paying second hand in the form of whatever the trustee could skimp to start paying down a judgment---but their unlimited liability would be ended.

Without the dangers of coerced treatment.

Not an optimal solution, but the lesser among evils, certainly.

Julie
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »