General Interest > Tacitus' Realm

Wanna fight?

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Antigen:
http://fornits.com/anonanon/freedom.m3u

Oz girl:
Sure why not. I love these fights

Listened to about 1/2. Was intrigued by this idea that Liberalism is the only truly moral political philosophy. I could not disagree more. The narrator seemed to confuse any kind of socialism or govt intervention with hardcore communism. I would say that in the abscence of any govt intervention at all it is the market that is in charge. This does not make things any more free for the people who lack money or education because they have no power. If any thing govt should be there to civilise total freemarket liberalism so that everyone gets a fair go.

i note he honed in on russia and the berlin wall but totally ignored countries that have traditionally had some tendencies toward socialism like Canada The netherlands, France and New Zealand. All of these places provide free and comprehensive health cover and in most cases ( i dont know about Canada) publically accessable, if not totally free higher education. But they dont have beaurocrats in any of those places marching about stifling peoples basic rights. Just higher taxes.  If anything most of those places are pretty liberal socially

69:
Okay just finished it. I liked it, and agreed with pretty much everything he said.

Liberty is the only moral political philosophy. I agree, I think the only political philosophy that comes close to the nature of man is a lack of one completely with a healthy understanding of freedom. Something anyone locked up against their will without charges will understand very quick. Dangerous thoughts this man has, something a lot of people fear I am sure.

Oz girl:
Oh i would agree that civil liberties are vital. locking children up unless they are a bonifde danger to themselves or the community is never the answer and people should have the freedom to eat, injest, sleep with and worship whatever and whoever they want.
 
But most socialist countries do not actually stop anyone from doing this. Look @ the netherlands. There is not a lot that you cant do over there. its citizens enjoy greater civil liberties than both the US and Australia which are both more economically liberal. total economic liberalism means that the poor are more likely to stay that way and lack access to vital social services like medicine and education. The middle enjoy such privileges but struggle and spend a big portion of their income on things like a college fund or health insurance. The rich are free to do whatever they want so real freedom is limited to one group. Give me socila liberalism any day. Sudsidise medicine and education. Provide a high standard of social services, mandate paid maternity and paternity leave and watch a wider group of people enjoy a higher standard of living. I am happy to pay a little more tax to do this.

Antigen:
More than that. In a free market, people who don't have money have the freedom to get some. I used to answer phones for doctors for a living. One thing I noticed about the much vaunted 'free' Canadian healthcare system is that wealthy Canadians had a tendency to schedule high end procedures, like major surgery and such, in American hospitals w/ American doctors. I already knew about the 'free' services from years ago, having hung out w/ a salty old sailboat bum who had spent some years shipping his wealth out of Canada $9,999 at a time.

America has such controls as you mention. Dunno why people insist on pretending otherwise. I just heard of a new one, and this is a real knee slapper. They're timbering the hell out of West Virginia these days, so the market is getting competitive. Along come the helpful regulators with a new requirement that anyone who uses a chain saw in earning a living must complete a safety training course at their own expense and then apply for certification (permission from the state to continue earning a living). Gee, I know that's all about protecting us from ourselves, not about protecting a limited market from competition, right children? LOL

Pass! I'll take a zero for today, thanks. Now then, were's that field mill? I'm `a build myself a damned cabin next spring, and I might even have the umption to pay a guy who knows what he's doing with a board ripper to help me do it. And I'll be god damned if the state will get any of what I pay him.

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