Author Topic: AA. Cult or cure?  (Read 2853 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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AA. Cult or cure?
« on: January 03, 2007, 03:06:08 AM »
http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-eff ... ant_deaths

Professor (and Doctor) George E. Vaillant of Harvard University is an enthusiastic advocate of Twelve-Step treatment, and is currently a Non-alcoholic -- Class A -- member of the Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc. (AAWS) Board of Trustees. In 1983, he published his book The Natural History of Alcoholism: Causes, Patterns, and Paths to Recovery, where he described the natural healing process associated with individuals addicted to alcohol -- "spontaneous remission" -- where some of the people who are addicted to alcohol will simply quit, and choose to stay abstinent of their own volition, without any Alcoholics Anonymous meetings, or any therapy program, or any other outside intervention at all.

Dr. Vaillant's question was: does the A.A. program improve on the percentage of alcoholics who undergo spontaneous remission?

Following the passage of the Hughes Act, the U.S. government -- the NIAAA to be specific -- funded studies of alcoholism treatment. Dr. Vaillant participated in the Cambridge-Sommerville [Massachusetts] Program for Alcohol Rehabilitation (CASPAR). It featured 24-hour walk-in services with medical treatment for detoxing. It treated 1000 new patients per year, did 2500 detoxifications per year, and had 20,000 outpatient visits per year.

To study the effectiveness of various methods of treating alcoholism ("treatment modalities"), Vaillant compiled forty years of clinical studies. Vaillant and the director William Clark also conducted an eight-year longitudinal study of their own where Vaillant reported having followed 100 patients who had undergone Twelve-Step treatment. (That was an unusually large and long-term study.) Vaillant compared those people to a group of several hundred other untreated alcohol abusers. The treated patients did no better than the untreated alcoholics. Fully 95% of the treated patients relapsed sometime during the eight-year period that Vaillant followed them. Professor Vaillant candidly reported:


When I joined the staff at Cambridge Hospital, I learned about the disease of alcoholism for the first time. My prior training had been at a famous teaching hospital that from past despair had posted an unwritten sign over the door that read "alcoholic patients need not apply."   ...   At Cambridge Hospital I learned for the first time how to diagnose alcoholism as an illness and to think of abstinence in terms of "one day at a time."   ...   To me, alcoholism became a fascinating disease. It seemed perfectly clear that by meeting the immediate individual needs of the alcoholic, by using multimodality therapy, by disregarding "motivation," by turning to recovering alcoholics [A.A. members] rather than to Ph.D.'s for lessons in breaking self-detrimental and more or less involuntary habits, and by inexorably moving patients from dependence upon the general hospital into the treatment system of A.A., I was working for the most exciting alcohol program in the world.
But then came the rub. Fueled by our enthusiasm, I and the director, William Clark, tried to prove our efficacy. Our clinic followed up our first 100 detoxification patients, the Clinic sample described in Chapter 3, every year for the next 8 years.   ...

Table 8.1 shows our treatment results. After initial discharge, only five patients in the Clinic sample never relapsed to alcoholic drinking, and there is compelling evidence that the results of our treatment were no better than the natural history of the disease. In table 8.1, the outcomes for the Clinic sample patients are contrasted with two-year follow-ups of four treatment programs that analyzed their data in a comparable way and admitted patients similar to ours. The Clinic sample results are also contrasted with three studies of equal duration that purported to offer no formal treatment. Although the treatment populations differ, the studies are roughly comparable; in hopes of averaging out major sampling differences, the studies are pooled. Costello (1975), Emrick (1975), and Hill and Blane (1967) have reviewed many more disparate two-year outcome studies and have noted roughly similar proportions of significantly improved and unimproved alcoholics. Not only had we failed to alter the natural history of alcoholism, but our death rate of three percent a year was appalling.
[/b]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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AA. Cult or cure?
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2007, 03:10:11 AM »
Sorry for the double post, please delete one.

 :oops:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2007, 03:17:55 AM »
I'm up to eight...

Alcoholics Anonymous
Narcotics Anonymous
Cocaine Anonymous
Marijuana Anonymous
Gamblers Anonymous
Sex Addicts Anonymous
Overeaters Anonymous
Tobacco Anonymous


Debtors anon
Co-dependents anon :roll:
Families anon?? :rofl:
Parents anon  :roll:
Dual recovery anon :roll:
Emotions anon :rofl:  :rofl:
Messies anon  :roll:
Crystal Meth anon
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline try another castle

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« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2007, 04:10:45 AM »
An incomplete list from wiki, with some commentary (in parenthesis) by myself. It doesn't include the support-anon groups such as ACOA and al-anon.. aka whiners anonymous.

* AA Alcoholics Anonymous
* ADD-Anonymous - for people suffering from ADD
* AAA - All Addictions Anonymous (for people who are addicted to every single thing known to mankind.)
* Anti-Nutrient*Addicts Anonymous
* BA - Borderliners Anonymous (because if there's one thing that 12 step can help you with, it's your issues regarding self-entitlement and black and white thinking.)
* CA - Cocaine Anonymous
* CDA - Chemically Dependent Anonymous
* CEA - Compulsive Eaters Anonymous
* CLA - Clutterers Anonymous (pull up a chair, if you can find one in this mess)
* CMA - Crystal Meth Anonymous
* CoDA - Codependents Anonymous
* COSLAA - Codependents of Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous
* COSA - Codependents of Sex Addicts
* DRA - Dual Recovery Anonymous
* DA - Debtors Anonymous
* DA - Depressed Anonymous (not very exciting meetings.)
* DRA - Dual Recovery Anonymous (It's listed twice cause they're dual recoverers!)
* EA - Emotions Anonymous (For people who have no control over the fact that they felt something.)
* EAA - Eating Addictions Anonymous
* FA - Families Anonymous (addicted to families)
* FA - Food Addicts in Recovery Anonymous
* GA - Gamblers Anonymous
* GSA - GreySheeters Anonymous
* I.S.A. - Incest Survivors Anonymous (Why does someone need 12 steps for this? Do they make it a regular, compulsive habit to survive incest?)
* MA - Marijuana Anonymous
* MA - Methadone Anonymous (Don't go to the wrong meeting! You might end up talking about pot.)
* NA - Narcotics Anonymous
* NicA - Nicotine Addicts Anonymous
* OA - Overeaters Anonymous
* OLGA / OLG-Anon - OnLine Gamers Anonymous
* PIR - Pagans In Recovery (Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of Baphomet as we understood Him)
* RA - Recoveries Anonymous; the Solution Focused Twelve Step Fellowship (Using 12 steps to recover from 12 step?)
* RCA - Recovering Couples Anonymous (recovering from being a couple)
* RSA - Rape Survivors Anonymous (See: incest survivors anonymous.)
* SA - Sexaholics Anonymous (note: don't mingle with RSA members.)
* SAA - Sex Addicts Anonymous
* SCA - Sexual Compulsives Anonymous
* SIA - Survivors of Incest Anonymous
* SLAA - Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous
* SA - Spenders Anonymous
* SPA - Social Phobics Anonymous (Probably very sparsely attended meetings.)
* SRAA - Sexual Ritual Abuse Anonymous (Note: don't mingle with the Pagans in Recovery.)
* STA - Self-Therapy Anonymous (I need a support group to give myself self-therapy.)
* WA - Workaholics Anonymous
« Last Edit: January 03, 2007, 07:13:07 AM by Guest »

Offline 69

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« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2007, 04:14:05 AM »
holy shiat.. :o
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline try another castle

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« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2007, 08:53:17 AM »
I'm copying this post of mine over from the other thread. Figured it's more relevant here.


12 Steps To Hell: By Jim Goad

1. We admitted that our addictions were fucking us up.

2. Came to believe that since we started them, only we could stop them.

3. Made a decision to follow our gut instincts as we understood them.

4. Didn't bullshit ourselves about our many flaws.

5. Having admitted our flaws, we kept them to ourselves - they're nobody else's business.

6. Were entirely ready to argue with anyone who disagreed.

7. Filled with self-respect, we did nothing humbly.

8. Made a list of all the persons we had harmed and realized that most of them deserved it.

9. Paid all our police fines, then burned all our bridges.

10. Continued to be ruthlessly honest with ourselves and admitted all our wrongs - to ourselves.

11. Trusted ourselves and only ourselves with what's best for us.

12. Having assumed full responsibility for our lives, we weren't foolish enough to try to change everyone else - first, it's a losing proposition, and second, we couldn't care less.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2007, 12:00:35 PM »
Some pshrink researcher types are now saying they think the genetic predisposition to alcoholism and the genes for bipolar disorder may be some of the same genes.

If so, it makes a certain amount of sense that once the problem gets triggered, talk therapies are of only limited effectiveness.

Maybe once they understand it better they can un-trigger it somehow or treat it, if it gets triggered, with gene therapy.

Something. Maybe they'll be able to do something more effective and less of a pain in the neck for the patient to help them.

Or learn how to repair the body and brain damage from the alcohol.

Hey, would it really matter if a couple nights a week you sat in a safe place with a bunch of your friends partying down and getting trashed if it wasn't hurting your health? Uh....no.

Maybe all they need to do about recreational drug use is make it cheaper and safe to yourself and others.

Who can say?

Julie
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2007, 12:06:00 PM »
I like that Castle.





HR 1258
http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-action.html
Write to your Congressman or Congresswoman and your two Senators, and oppose H.R.1258, the "Time for Recovery and Equal Access to Treatment in America (TREAT America) Act of 2005".

This bill is just another attempt by the quack 12-Step treatment industry to grab more money for themselves. They try this every year. Their pet boy, Congressman Jim Ramstad, the most un-anonymous member of Alcoholics Anonymous in Congress, has introduced so many of these bills that it is absurd. They just won't quit, so neither can we.

AA financials...

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-let ... financials
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2007, 12:24:55 PM »
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anne Bonney

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« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2007, 09:22:15 PM »
Did you read Valliant's report?  He's the AA Board of Trustees member who found that AA actually increased the death rate of alcoholics.  I believe the word he used was appalling.

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-eff ... ant_deaths

The coercion isn't just through the court system.  It's so ingrained and accepted as pretty much the ONLY game in town that medical professionals refer to AA, treatment centers use the 12 Steps and suggest attendance to AA for aftercare.  AA tells these people day in and day out that they'll relapse and die if they stop coming to meetings.  Sponsors have an inordinate amount of control over their charges.  Marriages have broken up because the non-alcoholic spouse rejects AA's teachings and the sponsor tells the newcomer that the wife has now become "toxic" to his recovery.  Children end up estranged from parents for the same reason.  AA believes that the steps are the solution to all.  Many sponsors have told sponsees to discontinue medication saying that it "interferes with their recovery".   It's not just the flaky, benign little support group you'd think from how they describe themselves and are obviously perceived.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa