Author Topic: The Seven Steps  (Read 7056 times)

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Offline Antigen

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The Seven Steps
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2006, 02:43:31 PM »
Prepare to be touched by his noodly appendages!
http://www.venganza.org/
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Stripe

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The Seven Steps
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2006, 07:15:08 PM »
I feel so much better now, more aware and stuff... Thank you.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
The person who stands up and says, ``This is stupid,\'\' either is asked to `behave\' or, worse, is greeted with a cheerful ``Yes, we know! Isn\'t it terrific ?\'\' -- Frank Zappa

Offline Antigen

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The Seven Steps
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2006, 08:19:06 PM »
Aye, matey!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2006, 03:10:29 AM »
I don't really see the problem with the steps. I have been reading you for days because the seed truly fucked me up almost 30 years ago. I'm looking for the answer to exactly how they fucked me up.
These are a few things I have come up with. First and formost they said they loved me and would always be there and one morning I came in and they said we will be gone in two hours. GONE!! For two years I had nothing else but them.  So 30 years of committment issues, NO ONE means it when they say they will always be there. So now I am tired of typing if you want to know the others let me know. WHY AM I STILL THINKING ABOUT THIS 30 YEARS LATER??
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2006, 03:15:21 AM »
I have tried to register twice and can't can anyone help
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2006, 03:16:03 AM »
I am both Adc4x and Andrea
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Offline NOT12NOW

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« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2006, 10:30:19 AM »
I
Quote from: ""Guest""
First and formost they said they loved me and would always be there and one morning I came in and they said we will be gone in two hours. GONE!! For two years I had nothing else but them.  So 30 years of committment issues, NO ONE means it when they say they will always be there. So now I am tired of typing if you want to know the others let me know. WHY AM I STILL THINKING ABOUT THIS 30 YEARS LATER??


I understand that, despite the fact, that for me the seed leaving town was nothing but a great relief.  Still its not hard to understand that for those of you who made friends and a life in the seed that their sudden, and heartlessly executed retreat would deeply damage your trust in love and commitment.  Of course your still thinking about it 30 years later you were traumatized.  I hated every minute I was in that place and I still think about, have nightmares about it even, 30 years later so if there if that's weird--you've got company.

And about the seven steps conversation.  You don't have to agree with what anyone says here to be a welcome participant.  Just because we were all in the seed doesn't mean we all had the same experience.
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2006, 10:57:25 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
I have tried to register twice and can't can anyone help


What is the problem?  You just need to write down your username and password and you should be able to log in with no problem.
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2006, 10:58:27 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
I am both Adc4x and Andrea


Pick one and run with it.

 :lol:

Welcome to the forum!
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2006, 12:36:47 AM »
There's another thread similar to this one in the Straight Vets forum titled who else struggles. If I read it right, that one came from somebody who went through Elan and it seems like most of the native SV ppl missed that cause everything else is about the same.

Been thinking about this just lately, though; how to explain it to myself and those nearest and dearest to me. Till a few years ago, I never kept in touch with anyone from the Program, even family. Even my best childhood friend and I sort of drifted apart pretty soon after all of that. So I've always had a different perspective on things than the people around me. That makes life hard sometimes.

When Ft. Lauderdale PD and the tourist commission, or whomever planned it, cordoned off the beach and instituted random bag searches on pedestrians, it scared the living shit out of me. Didn't seem to bother anyone around me, and that scared me more. This was Independence Day of, I think, `96. When my kids started coming home from school with DARE and Peer Counseling material, that gave me the creeps. Daytime talk shows remind me of group. They don't remind anyone else of group; naturally enough because no one around me was there. When ATF opened fire on the Waco compound, I was the only one in the office not glued to the tv and cheering like the home team just made the winning fucking touch down. I rained on that parade, too, reminding everyone that there were kids in that place. That may have cost me some popularity around the office, but fuck em!

People who have never had so much reason to think so much about these things find this sort of behavior odd and disquieting. Seems like paranoia to them cause look, see?, no one else is worried. Everyone's having a good time and it only takes a few minutes to show the officer that you have nothing to hide. What the hell's the problem, right? Paranoia or prescience?**

We were exposed to a potent slice of the prison without walls experiments. People seem to sort themselves into to major groups based on favorite coping mechanism; they either develop a strong aversion and keen sensitivity to Program elements and tactics or they go the other way, plug their ears and chant "lalalala" * and pretend none of this is actually happening. Today? Check out the front page of Buzzflash.

"The Statue of Liberty Hangs Its Head in Shame: Congress Passes Law Giving Bush, Whose Actions Have Increased the Number of Terrorists and the Threat of Terrorism, Torquemada Torture Powers, the Right to Suspend Habeas Corpus, the Right to Declare Anyone -- Even Americans Enemy Combatants -- Who Could be Tortured And is Granted Retroactive Immunity from War Crimes. This May be the Fall of the Republic." http://buzzflash.com/

Regardless of what you may think about their editorial kant, the statement is factually true. And, again, most of the people around me don't really have a problem with it. But then none of the people around me were held captive and tortured for two years by the Büsh family fundraising champion, Mel Sembler.

* Acually, they don't usually chant "lalalala". Usually, they chant "you're a druggie, you're a druggie, you're a druggie!" Failing that, they go take another Prozac and plot and scheme new and interesting ways to "help" the people around them. That's why I don't hang out w/ the fuckers. They're dangerous!

** Words change. All the time, they do, which is how we eventually develop distinct languages and coloqialisms. That's fine. But I was sad to see that prescience--the ability and habit of extrapolation--has come to be used as a synonym for divination. I guess common sense has become such a rare comodity it seems like magic anymore. I give up on people. I'm looking for a pack of dogs that will have me.
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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline NOT12NOW

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« Reply #25 on: September 30, 2006, 06:52:05 PM »
Quote from: ""Cassandra""
Daytime talk shows remind me of group.


My god! I can't believe I never made that connection before those programs could have been created by someone who had been though one of these fucking programs; maybe they were.  
The formate is identical.  They get some sucker to state something-- "I like the way I dress I look sexy.  I don't care what anyone else says."  Then they open it up to the audience to call them nasty things till they recant and agree to a make over.
I've always said that when our culture falls historians are going to point to the popularity of those shows as evidence of our crumbling social structure.  The way throwing christians to the lions is understood as a evidence of the crumbling  roman empire.

I used to get really anxious before staff meetings at work.  It took me years to figure out that it was because my moody boss made the experience like group for me.  Mostly the meetings were dull but every few weeks she would get in a bunch about something and wail on us.  Just like group, long periods of boredom punctuated by sudden attacks.  For months I was mystified by my anxiety,  everyone else thought she could be a royal bitch but I was the only one crying before staff meetings.  When I made the connection that the way I felt in staff meetings, was the way I felt in group my feelings made sense.  Her explosions were a pain in the ass to my co-workers, but to me it was a trip back to the front row.

One last thing, I  heard a radio story in the last year about DARE.  According to this report there was never any evidence that this program kept anyone off drugs and yet it continued to be funded regardless of the lack of proof that it worked.  I don't remember it there was a study that showed it didn't work or if there was never any evaluation of the programs success at all.  

can't say it suprised me.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Stripe

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« Reply #26 on: October 04, 2006, 05:37:01 PM »
Hey Not 12,

Aren't you glad you have finally figured out where all that   weirdness came from?  I had experiences very similar to what you describe.  For so many years I really believed what happened to me there was "right" and I searched and search trying to understand why I just wasn't able to live "the seed life."  That's the fallicy of this whole addiction model: if you are not an addict, it's a lifestyle choice that'll make you crazy.  I mean who in their right mind would choose to act like a crazy-person if they didn't have to?  

I hope that in the interim, between 12 and now, you have had some happy times where you were free of the negative aspects of theseed.  The Seed program(ming) really can mess up a persons psyche.  And personally, I think the effects are even worse for kids who were essentially trouble-free to begin with.

Our culture is becoming harsh and cruel and it seems like most folks beat each other out of the way to get on the current bandwagon.  Right now, it's the drug war and breaking the spirits of kids - or WMDs, or some other lie-du-jour.  Our best defense against all this insanity is to tell the truth. It's not easy or comfortable, but that is what is required.  Truth.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
The person who stands up and says, ``This is stupid,\'\' either is asked to `behave\' or, worse, is greeted with a cheerful ``Yes, we know! Isn\'t it terrific ?\'\' -- Frank Zappa

Offline GregFL

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« Reply #27 on: October 04, 2006, 08:04:44 PM »
Quote from: ""Stripe""

I hope that in the interim, between 12 and now, you have had some happy times where you were free of the negative aspects of theseed.  The Seed program(ming) really can mess up a persons psyche.  And personally, I think the effects are even worse for kids who were essentially trouble-free to begin with.

.


I agree Stripe, but I would go even a step further.  People who were 'trouble' also didn't need the extreme treatment they received at the seed.

I know I was anything but an angel.  Hell, I still got a little hellion in me.  However, I spent years trying to shed the baggage the seed attached to my ego.

Maybe if I was a junkie selling my body for my next fix, I could justify some similar life changing event like the seed.  Maybe.  However, my situation simply didn't warrant being locked up in a behavior modification camp, especially one with the extreme techniques and cultic ideology  like the seed.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #28 on: October 05, 2006, 01:19:15 AM »
How about just a PCP addict who couldnt feel her face and who th seed temporaily saved me from myself and changed my life.
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2006, 08:51:44 AM »
How about it?  I don't suppose I can judge your situation very good from where I sit.

However, I do have a question?  PCP addict?  I do remember PCP back in the day, and I don't remember it as being an addictive substance.  Certainly dangerous in the forms it was sold back then, but addictive?

So these are my questions.  How old were you when you kicked the addiction?  How long did you use this substance before coming addicted?  At what age did you start? How many times a day did you take this substance?   What was the cost of the substance on a daily basis, and how did you get the money? Where did you physically withdraw?  What were the withdrawal symptoms?  What delivery method did you use to injest the substance?

The alternative of course, is that you are misusing the word addiction.
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