SUE SCHEFF and ISABELLE ZENDHER (PURE, CAICA, WWASP lawsuit)

[Dr Phil]

Thanks for that powerful post, it's nice to hear other people's stories. I don't have a political goal in posting here, I am not on a mission other than to share my own experiences and hear from others with a similar interest... probably not by their own choice. So thanks for sharing, I enjoy that type of post much more than the broad based political discussions.

I wonder a lot about whether the problem really is programs, or that of our parents. Afterall, with enough money, I could get someone to do anything I want, from murder to sexual deviant acts to whatever. But who is truly the source of evil in a situation when one party is simply paying the other for services rendered. Are our parents negligent for not checking up on what they were paying for? Can we really just accept the fact they say they were duped and didn't know, but simultaneously took zero effort in checking up on us? I think sometimes I want to project all my anger on 'programs' but in fact a lot of that anger is really directed at my parents.

The fact that there are people out there wiling to abuse kids for large sums of money is not what shocked me about the whole experience. I had seen that stuff before. What shocked me is that I could write a letter home to my parent telling them what was going on, how I was being mistreated, and have them write back in a program tone completely dismissing me. Like you said, abandonment, that was something that I was familiar with before in my childhood, but not to the extreme of being locked away in a program incommunicado. At least prisoners can write letters to their lawyer, their congressman, the pope. All we could write to was our parents, begging them to take us home. Pleading for an explanation as to why we are locked up at this god-awful place. And most of all, wondering why they won't believe us/check up on us. To be willingly forgotten is not a good feeling.

That is why I wonder who is at fault here. Programs and business opportunists and profiteers, the minimum-wage receiving family father, or our parents... for selling us down the river? I haven't figured this out for myself yet.

I suppose this could be considered the old 'chicken and egg argument', and now they feed each other. I feel the same way you do, it's disheartening to believe things are going to change for the better, and in only a few years WWASP has expanded with several new facilities instead.

I feel like we spend a lot of my time screaming at these families walking towards a cliff, completely unbeknownst to them, and not only do they ignore our warnings but hurl insults right back. Shortly before plunging down... to a place they had no idea even existed.

I guess there is one plus, a constant stream of new posters at fornits!  :lol:  :roll:  :cry:

Sometimes I feel a lot like this guy:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 4130733905

But other times I feel like this guy.. so who knows!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 1558581805

[Anonymous]

CCM girl and others:  Can't you see that the comments below are from ISABELLE ZENDHER, the "other" Sue Scheff?  Isabelle, the great CA-CA is on Fornits every single day of her invisible and sorry life.


"CCM Girl, rather than spending all this time trying to figure out the players on Fornits, why not get proactive in trying to make a difference. I don't mean that in any bad way, but there is so much that can be done with the precious little time we all have. You can write letters to legislators, Try speaking to groups in your area, educate as many people as you can, let parents know the danger of sending their kids away. Spending so much time on Fornits, frankly, can?t be mentally healthy for anyone. I know it?s not for me and I come here to look for news, etc., that?s it. Getting involved with the handful of people who spend most of their time hurting others, just doesn?t seem productive to me. Just a thought.

I ony address this to you, CCM girl, because you make sense and seem very bright. I think you have the ability to make a difference. Please, remember there are two sides to every story and you will hear only one side here on Fornits."

[Anonymous]

Ginger, cant ya see im the most loved person on your fornits forum.  get me my own place.  I demand it NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


"Guest of a Guest wrote:
Hey Ginger we need you to help us. you can see there is great support for Sues own forum. Can you help us out here ginger?

Just do it"


yea,come on Ginger. The SUE SCHEFF and P.U.R.E. Show?

Your not afraid im gonna sue you again are you? Cause that woundnt be right. I forgive you for screwing with my head.

Nihilie will run the show. Just set er up and let er rip Ginger![/b]

[Anonymous]

Thanks for that powerful post, it's nice to hear other people's stories. I don't have a political goal in posting here, I am not on a mission other than to share my own experiences and hear from others with a similar interest... probably not by their own choice. So thanks for sharing, I enjoy that type of post much more than the broad based political discussions.

I wonder a lot about whether the problem really is programs, or that of our parents. Afterall, with enough money, I could get someone to do anything I want, from murder to sexual deviant acts to whatever. But who is truly the source of evil in a situation when one party is simply paying the other for services rendered. Are our parents negligent for not checking up on what they were paying for? Can we really just accept the fact they say they were duped and didn't know, but simultaneously took zero effort in checking up on us? I think sometimes I want to project all my anger on 'programs' but in fact a lot of that anger is really directed at my parents.

The fact that there are people out there wiling to abuse kids for large sums of money is not what shocked me about the whole experience. I had seen that stuff before. What shocked me is that I could write a letter home to my parent telling them what was going on, how I was being mistreated, and have them write back in a program tone completely dismissing me. Like you said, abandonment, that was something that I was familiar with before in my childhood, but not to the extreme of being locked away in a program incommunicado. At least prisoners can write letters to their lawyer, their congressman, the pope. All we could write to was our parents, begging them to take us home. Pleading for an explanation as to why we are locked up at this god-awful place. And most of all, wondering why they won't believe us/check up on us. To be willingly forgotten is not a good feeling.

That is why I wonder who is at fault here. Programs and business opportunists and profiteers, the minimum-wage receiving family father, or our parents... for selling us down the river? I haven't figured this out for myself yet.

I suppose this could be considered the old 'chicken and egg argument', and now they feed each other. I feel the same way you do, it's disheartening to believe things are going to change for the better, and in only a few years WWASP has expanded with several new facilities instead.

I feel like we spend a lot of my time screaming at these families walking towards a cliff, completely unbeknownst to them, and not only do they ignore our warnings but hurl insults right back. Shortly before plunging down... to a place they had no idea even existed.

I guess there is one plus, a constant stream of new posters at fornits!  :lol:  :roll:  :cry:

Sometimes I feel a lot like this guy:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 4130733905

But other times I feel like this guy.. so who knows!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 1558581805

My name is Sous Chef and I approve of this message.

 ::nod::

[Dr Phil]

:-?









Yes, I went there.

[Anonymous]

CAICA knows the importance of warning parents against abusive programs. We also realize parents need options. Though we do not provide referrals, we  do offer our recommendation to contact
P.U.R.E.*, as they give parents safe options and offer help:
----------------------------------------

Is this a joke?  We (meaning Isabelle) do not provide referrals, just recommendations to a website called PURE that IS in the referral business.

Re:  Teen Revitalization (Also a Referral Website)

Mr. Bundy fails to provide names of the facilities he promotes.

http://www.caica.org/Teen%20revitalization.htm

Is Isabelle aware that the same can be said for Sue Scheff of PURE who also fails to provide the names of the facilities she refers to?

 :roll:

[Anonymous]

CCM girl and others: Can't you see that the comments below are from ISABELLE ZENDHER, the "other" Sue Scheff? Isabelle, the great CA-CA is on Fornits every single day of her invisible and sorry life.


"CCM Girl, rather than spending all this time trying to figure out the players on Fornits, why not get proactive in trying to make a difference. I don't mean that in any bad way, but there is so much that can be done with the precious little time we all have. You can write letters to legislators, Try speaking to groups in your area, educate as many people as you can, let parents know the danger of sending their kids away. Spending so much time on Fornits, frankly, can?t be mentally healthy for anyone. I know it?s not for me and I come here to look for news, etc., that?s it. Getting involved with the handful of people who spend most of their time hurting others, just doesn?t seem productive to me. Just a thought.

I ony address this to you, CCM girl, because you make sense and seem very bright. I think you have the ability to make a difference. Please, remember there are two sides to every story and you will hear only one side here on Fornits."

CAICA knows the importance of warning parents against abusive programs. We also realize parents need options. Though we do not provide referrals, we  do offer our recommendation to contact
P.U.R.E.*, as they give parents safe options and offer help:
----------------------------------------

Is this a joke?  We (meaning Isabelle) do not provide referrals, just recommendations to a website called PURE that IS in the referral business.

Re:  Teen Revitalization (Also a Referral Website)

Mr. Bundy fails to provide names of the facilities he promotes.

http://www.caica.org/Teen%20revitalization.htm

Is Isabelle aware that the same can be said for Sue Scheff of PURE who also fails to provide the names of the facilities she refers to?

 :roll:

Dead on! :tup:  :tup:

[Anonymous]

The only program I know of that has criminal charges being brought against them is Whitmore. The one Cheryl Sudweeks owned. I do realize that Scheff reffered parents there. I do also realize that Scheff refers to other programs too. I'm not sure how many of those are concidered "abusive"?.

Why would Sue continue to refer to Whitmore even after these allegations of abuse came out?  Even after criminal charges were filed?  

Sue is a greedy attention whore.  Izzy is just an attention whore.  Don't know if she gets any financial gain from it or just the high of being a 'savior'.

[Anonymous]

CAICA knows the importance of warning parents against abusive programs. We also realize parents need options. Though we do not provide referrals, we  do offer our recommendation to contact
P.U.R.E.*, as they give parents safe options and offer help:
----------------------------------------

Is this a joke?  We (meaning Isabelle) do not provide referrals, just recommendations to a website called PURE that IS in the referral business.

Re:  Teen Revitalization (Also a Referral Website)

Mr. Bundy fails to provide names of the facilities he promotes.

http://www.caica.org/Teen%20revitalization.htm

Is Isabelle aware that the same can be said for Sue Scheff of PURE who also fails to provide the names of the facilities she refers to?

 :roll:

The bottom line is theyre peddling programs to parents.

Lesse, why is this... fallacious and bullshit?

• PROGRAMS DO NOT PROVIDE THERAPY!
• What programs DO provide is mind control, behavior modification, or brainwashing - whatever you call it, thats what it is. Its not about therapy, or fixing problems, its about breaking them down, making them think differently, and believe in the new-agey bullshit shoved down their throat and forced self disclosure to everyone, all the time, and regression-based ''experiences" and "epiphanies" (an emotional effect, or a pathological one... again, take your pick) so they come out acting like stepford kids, do as told, and 'relate' and 'spill the beans' to everyone on request.
• The abuse and emotional scarring from that process, plus deprogramming, is just another problem to get treatment for, in addition to any they had in the first place
• The isolation from the outside world fucks them up. Im sick of spelling out and enumerating the same old thing... read the same shit I have and figure it out for yourself, youve got a brain, USE IT!
• Last but not least, theyre isolated from their family, and the programs bullshit given to the parents about what they should expect from a child, and their abdication of responsibility, makes them quite a bit more disfunctional than they were in the first place, or disfunctional in the first place if they werent, but just a fool to send their kid to a program.

A program is a program, its not therapy. Therapy isnt pushed upon kids who dont need it, yet programs take any kids with paying parents. Programs dont give therapy anyway, and most say so in fine print or when pushed on the issue... or make you buy it seperately like some WWASPS programs. Its about control, and regression, and 'brainwashing' to be vulgar, not about healing or fixing anything.

And, well, a great dumping ground for hysterical parents or someone wanting to ditch their kids, who has sufficient money.

The really funny thing is that if you 'fix a program' you end up with something we already have, thats not a program at all... TREATMENT and THERAPY for people who need it, not those who do not, and its only lock-in as long as is absolutely necessary for the childs safety, not becuase a program, parent, or some idiot staffer said so, without isolation from the outside world, captivity, or abuse.

AKA, a fucking mental hospital.

-Niles. And Im sick of my cookies fucking up so I just dont bother... you all can tell how I write anyway.

[Dr Phil]

The really funny thing is that if you 'fix a program' you end up with something we already have, thats not a program at all... TREATMENT and THERAPY for people who need it, not those who do not, and its only lock-in as long as is absolutely necessary for the childs safety, not becuase a program, parent, or some idiot staffer said so, without isolation from the outside world, captivity, or abuse.

AKA, a fucking mental hospital.

A parent can manipulate their child into a mental hospital pretty easily too, it happened to me. My parent called the cops and said I kept talking about suicide, which wasn't true, and they handcuffed me and took me to county mental health lockup, after a couple days I was transfered to another lockdown mental hospital for adolescents and spent a couple weeks there against my will. Isolation, captivity and abuse happen in psychiatric hospitals as well, and they pump you full of drugs as well, which I now consider a form of abuse (giving anti-psychotics to teenagers just to calm them down, this is chemical restraint). I've been in isolation cells in psychiatric hospitals as well as programs. The only difference between psychiatric lockdowns and programs is you have access to advocacy while in psychiatric hospital. But it's pretty limited, and it's definitely not a safe haven against abuse or anything like that. Any lockdown situation where a kid doesn't want to be there is going to get ugly, IMO. In my own experience, I would choose a psychiatric hospital over a program anyday of thee week... but honestly if I had a kid I would desperately avoid both...after having experienced and witnessed it myself.

[CCM girl 1989]

The psychiatric hospital I was in, I believe it was in Orem, or Provo, Utah? Was actually a nice place to be. I was sent there after cutting on myself, and for anorexia while at Heritage. Everybody was so nice. You had 1 floor of teens, one side girls the other boys. Within a few days I was running the group therapy sesssions. I was drinking a lot of ensure to get my weight back up. They would weigh me daily with my back to the numbers. If I didn't want to participate in something, I didn't. I had the freedom of going back and forth to my room.

I was bummed when I returned to Heritage, even more bummed when I was picked up by Karr Farnsworth, and Bob Lichfield and transported to Cross Creek.

That's the way it goes!

[Anonymous]

Seems Isabelle has edited her original promotional ad for PURE.  Here's the new and improved one:


CAICA knows the importance of warning parents against abusive programs. We also realize parents need options. Looking for help for your child can be daunting, at best. Sue Scheff and Marie Peart at P.U.R.E., know the industry well and have been helping parents to find safe alternatives and options for their teens and children for seven years, providing them with tools and resources. You can reach them at www.helpyourteens.com, 866-798-2285.

----------------

Seems Isabelle has a very select memory or a bad case of amnesia.  

Sue Scheff continued to refer to WWASPS after she started PURE.
That's a fact that can be found in the WWASPS v. PURE transcripts.  

Additionally, Marie and Sue both worked for WWASPS in the past.

And Marie Peart has her own website in addition to now working for PURE.

http://www.parentandteenresources.com

Buyer Beware!

Isabelle may like to call herself a child advocate, but promoting unregulated programs and referral services while at the same time exploiting the deaths of children in abusive facilties makes her part of the problem, not the solution.

Nice touch adding the phone number.  Wouldn't want to inconvenience those "desperate" parents or make it difficult for them to send their children to a program that pays a finder's fees to outfits like PURE.

Oh and by the way.  What are the names of these safe programs you promote through your endorsement of PURE, Isabelle?  

We are still waiting for an answer.

 :roll:

[Anonymous]

You'll be waiting a long time for that answer I am afraid! What I want to know is how they choose their programs to refer kids to? Do they go there and investigate them themselves, or is it merely who ever pays them the most money for a referal fee gets their stamp of approval? No disrespect towards them, or anyone in the business. But, I am curious.

[CCM girl 1989]

oopsy that was me!!!

[Anonymous]

Yeah, looks like Isabelle deleted the word "recommend" from her PURE plug.  Wonder why? :rofl:

As for PURE, since they don't name the programs they promote, one could presume they are afraid parents will simply contact the programs themselves - thereby cutting out the middle man? Or maybe they are afraid of competition?  From other referral outfits?  Who the hell knows.  The referral business is as unregulated as the teen help business is.  It's a racket, IMO.  Anybody can be one.  No experience or education necessary.


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