motivating and mind control

[dragonfly]

[GregFL]

How did 'what' all begin?

The genesis of this form of treatment seems to be the synanon.  But this thread is talking about the roots of 'motivating'.

[Anonymous]

Give up!
Fuck the government!
Kill the home owners!

Get disconnected!

Disconnected!

All the prime time tv shows
Say the middle class are homos!

Get disconnected

Disconnected!

See the Kool-aid in the compound!
Stir it up and pass it around!

Get disconnected

Disconnected!

Fuck religion
eat scum!
Beat a corpse!
Fuck a nun!

Get disconnected

Disconnected!

::stab::  :skull: ::both:: :rofl: :tup:

[Rude Intrusion]

I like the song. (the one with the video)

I don't think the two (motivating and what takes place in worship services) are related; or that they are meant to accomplish the same thing.

I gather from my reading, that any kind of rhythmic, repetitive movement, accompanied by chanting, or drumming ect, can and does induce a trance like state. Once a person is in this trance like state, they are more open to all kinds of influences.  

Some faiths understand this and this is exactly what they are trying to accomplish - a trance where they can surrender to outside influences. Others are less open about what they are accomplishing with the rhythmic music and dancing or chanting.

It might also be of interest that some persons, when deep in prayer, sway or rock in a rhythmic way; often without being much aware of it; and with no audeble music or chanting taking place.

Motivating seems to be something different. There is nothing very rhythmic about it. No chanting is there? It does seem designed more of a way to obtain and maintain a kid's identity with the group. Group think, is also important to brain washing. You know - "they all think this, so it must be right. OK. best. . ." If you motivate with the group, you become part of that group. That's my best guess. And also possibly, it is meant to induce great fatigue. Brains are more easily washed when they are stressed and tired; and when their bodies are also stressed and tired.

As for the clapping and swaying in church; I don't think that is any different than people at a concert clapping and swaying or banging their head.

On a related subject - when reading cults in Our Midst, I read about Cult leaders who were able to put their followers in a trance state with their use of speech patters - a sing song or otherwise patterned speech - and that once the flock was thus subdued, they could impart all kinds of weird ideas and have them accepted. It was interesting.

[001010]

Well, thanks for the info on the song.  What about all the Muslims, from little kids, to adults with blood all over them, doing what appears to be in affect the same thing as motivating?

How does this relate to chanting in cults?  Segay to christianity and the arms raised and swaying?


I submit this is all the same function as motivating.  It 'surrenders' you to not only the speaker/dogma, but also the environment surrounding the speaker/dogma.

Someone tell me I am right or wrong.  I long for discussion on this topic.

Chanting is the absence of thought, correct? And motivation was "showing" our devotion and the desire to speak.  I don't know... I go to a church where people have outer-body experiences when they are worshipping the Holy Spirit. I call it spiritual moshing.  The difference is that we aren't expected to act that way, and our free will is respected. I can't say the same about other religions or practices, though. Motivation, to me, went along with the group mentality and inner competition between group members. It was also humiliating.

[Froderik]

Motivation, to me, went along with the group mentality and inner competition between group members. It was also humiliating.

Well said.

[GregFL]

Motivation, to me, went along with the group mentality and inner competition between group members. It was also humiliating.

Well said.

It was also expected.  So, explain the difference between this and the muslims shooting their arms up and down in rythymic trance while, for example, shouting 'death to america'?  what do you think would happen if one of these guys decided to have a seat, eat a bologna sandwich and not participate?  This would clearly put him on the 'outside' and not within the group and identify him as not one of the 'truly devoted'.  In order to gain that status, he must act in the ritualistic submission exercises.  

Now, lets discuss large religious services that whip people up in a healing fest.  what happens if you aren't swaying and just sitting there with your arms crossed instead of raised over your head?  What if you get slapped in the forehead and instead of convulsing and flailing around, you say "Earnest, Please don't ever hit me again..I don't appreciate it?"

 Seriously, it is the very participating in these ritualistic exercises of submission that not only identifies one as part of the group, but allows the person to be identified and participate in the goal of the group.  ie;  receive your healing.  earn your martydom.  Gain your awareness.  

So I still contend, Motivating is a stolen concept...stolen from religion.

[Anonymous]

I concur..... I think you're right on with this.

[001010]

Definitely a show of submission and servitude.  The difference between the bad ones and the good ones is that one is a choice, and the other is not. In other words, one respects free will and one does not.

[GregFL]

Whether religion respects free will is certainly debatable, and I think it is easily demonstrated that most religions do not.

However, getting back to the topic, I first noticed this phenomena of religous 'motivating' many years ago, and I made comment in an early thread about seeing muslim kids, in mandatory muslim schools, motivating.  I just never made the broader connection.  The straight version of motivation, stolen from the seed, was an extreme example of religious submission exercise.  It completely submits your body to the concept that you are part of a group, not an individual. While doing this, you mentally follow suit.  In addition, it identifies you to the other group members as one of them.  

To all of us "motivators", just remember that it was something we consciously one day decided to do.  It was part of our self-submission and our acknowledgement that we were becoming part of a group.

Think about speaking in tonques.  If anyone here has ever been to a church where they speak in tongues, and been thru the pressure of 'doing it', and then once done felt the immediate bond to the rest of the church and the submission to the church's concepts, then what I am about to say will make sense.

 Speaking in tonques is another form of 'motivating'.

[Anonymous]

It was our gift to you.  That is, us St Pete seedlings.

Wow, thanks a LOT, Greg.......

[Anonymous]

I think it was basically about demonstrating compliance.  During the Lulu Corter trial, Miller Newton, when denying that he approved of motivating, said he "tried to get rid of it, but the kids really like doing it, and the peer staff says it is a way to tell when a kid has stopped trying to be "cool"".  Now, I don't buy Virgil's denial one fucking bit, but it does indicate that 'motivation' was basically a demonstration of compliance, a form of collectively kissing the group's ass, a means of submitting to the "straight way".  I don't thin it necessarily has it's roots in religion, maybe more form that TV show Welcome Back, Kotter where the character Arnold Horschack would always be trying to get called on in class, "OO! OO! Mr. Kotter, Mr. Kotter!".  I think that's as valid as explanation as anything.

Again, thanks for the "present", Greg.........Love ya!

[Anonymous]

Beg, beg and beg some more, you'll get to stand up and relate even more. that's all it was, just a bunch of bullshit throwin the dog a bone mindfucking horseshittin compliance mongerin psychophysical abuse. No roots or nothin else, just plain ol' BULLSHIT to make kids look like retards for the perpetrators pleasure. If it was religious, there would not have been so much shame involved and we would have done it in front of our parents and they would have joined in and we all would have been one big mass of motivators on open meeting night. FUCK MOTIVATING!!!!

 :flame:

[FishBone]

To all of us "motivators", just remember that it was something we consciously one day decided to do.  It was part of our self-submission and our acknowledgement that we were becoming part of a group.

One of the things that alway disturbed me about straight was that it was perpetual.  It didn't even require any concious effort  to get people to conform to these behaviors.  Most people just conformed to the masses.  Its the old theory about people following like sheep.  Only in this case, there was noone really leading, just the group leading itself.  this includes most of the staff as I saw it.  They were just an extesion of the group mentallity.  And even Sembler and all the rest of the people we love to hate, they were not in control of this thing, at least by the time I was in there.  They just didn't care as long as the insurance checks kept rolling in.  Motivating was just a way to feel "in" with the group.  I was pretty much a "professional" misbehavior, & I have never felt as alone in all my life.  The brief period I actually "worked the program" & made 2nd phase felt great, even though I didn't believe any of the shit that was coming out of my mouth.

It is very hard to be that alone, even if you know that the way the group is going is completely fucked up.

[001010]

1Whether religion respects free will is certainly debatable, and I think it is easily demonstrated that most religions do not.

2However, getting back to the topic, I first noticed this phenomena of religous 'motivating' many years ago, and I made comment in an early thread about seeing muslim kids, in mandatory muslim schools, motivating.  I just never made the broader connection.  The straight version of motivation, stolen from the seed, was an extreme example of religious submission exercise.  It completely submits your body to the concept that you are part of a group, not an individual. While doing this, you mentally follow suit.  In addition, it identifies you to the other group members as one of them.  

To all of us "motivators", just remember that it was something we consciously one day decided to do.  It was part of our self-submission and our acknowledgement that we were becoming part of a group.

3Think about speaking in tonques.  If anyone here has ever been to a church where they speak in tongues, and been thru the pressure of 'doing it', and then once done felt the immediate bond to the rest of the church and the submission to the church's concepts, then what I am about to say will make sense.

 Speaking in tonques is another form of 'motivating'.

1) Not every religion (I don't believe in religion, personally) respects free will, but if you do believe in God and desire to go to church, the church to go to is the one that has a freedom of choice based environment through out all aspects of the ministry, and does not "expect" anything but the presence of people to be accepted. Even the expectation of giving money is over the top to me.

2) I agree. I said something similar in one of my previous posts.

3) Speaking in tongues is highly misinterpreted by many groups across the board. I agree that it is on certain levels expected by members and then puts them at a "higher level" once achieved, but it's a farce. It again can be chalked up in my book as "spiritual moshing" and a form of worship, but it's still a misinterpretation biblically.  The gift of tongues is not the ability to suddenly (on a Sunday morning at church) speak a native tongue. It's actually biblically explained as a communication tool between two people, not of the same native tongue, who do not have to actually speak to each other to understand one another. I can go into this further if anyone cares for me to elaborate a little more.