Need some advice.

[Anonymous]

Julie,

You aren't to the point where you might consider a program.  You may be munching your words.

[Anonymous]

"Best years of their lives"? High School??? You've got to be fucking kidding.

[Nihilanthic]

"Best years of their lives"? High School??? You've got to be fucking kidding.

What SHOULD BE, not before we had to go and fuck it up by making kids socially inept and making schools gang and thug-wannabe ridden cliquey hellholes where you dont know if the spoiled kids acting thug or the actual ghetto kids are worse.

We really fucked up the teenage years, I tell ya. I hear someone whose not in Generation Y (why?!?!?!) fondly remember, and I remember my experience with authoritarian or slightly programmesque bullshit in highschool plus all the social detritus called the 'student body', and its two completely different things.

My stepdad was out building his own cars engine in shop class and doing burnouts during lunch, same for all the older guys on the car forums I hang out on, vs the control freak bullshit I see now, with the singular focus on obedience, not really any necessity.

But yeah, good point. Highschool years had good times OUTSIDE of highschool where youre SUPPOSED to be doing stupid shit, getting laid, getting in non-legal trouble, playing video games until 3 am and getting your friends mom drunk.

Er, wait... well, hey, I guess thats fun too  

[Anonymous]

Where is DJ?

[Anonymous]

"Advocates of the Programs would say the parents might as well try them, even though the Programs don't work."  Not all "advocates of programs" would say "might as well try them."  Programs do work -- if they are the "right" kind for a particular situation.  And yes, there are a lot of inappropriate choices that can be made, and a fair number of places that claim to "take care" of everything but don't.



"Suck it up" is heard here often as well, and that is generally about as good.



Sure, the OP looks like a troll.  And no "program" seems in order so much as a good psychiatrist and perhaps a hospitalization.  I don't know, and since the issue seems fictional, who cares one might say.  But for the next question???

Oh really? Show me evidence that any program works at all.

 :roll: We've been down this road. You cant custom tailor torture to a real problem to be therapy for it. You cant spin and bullshit me with it, TheWho tried and failed. Its nothing but bullshit regressional 'breaking' that fixes nothing, causes more problems down the road, and makes them lose out on some of the best years of their lives and the accompanying social development that comes with it by being kept in some hellhole institution filling them with rehashed new age nonsense from decades ago and using restraint as corporal punishment.

Ooohh ... that "you can't custom tailor torture to a real problem" bit .. means???  I bet oriental water torture would fix any of your problems, but of course you don't have any.  Do tell me how much a teen gains by cutting virtually all classes, sneaking out, stealing, lying and using various drugs -- is that making them gain in the best years of their lives?  Also please explain how to stop the behavior - even get the kid to stay home- without restricting what you view as the high and mighty "freedom".  (Of course, that would be freedom to do as one wishes while snubbing parents except to demand financial support required by law or the like.)

[Anonymous]

Ooh, we've got a live one here! Is this the first troll on the new board? From the sounds of it, it looks like one of the more desperate ones.

I'm not even going to bother with the whole "shut the hell up and be a parent" schtick. If he's doing all of those things repeatedly, you failed at that.

Send him to school.. at that point, why even bother? You can force him to go to school if you really want to but you can't make him learn anything. He probably won't graduate (in comparison, a TBS "graduation" means nothing except embarrassment) and his college chances are absolutely nil. There's no reason for him to stay and no reason to continue the charade; you might as well just pull him out.

If he's that determined to fuck himself up on drugs he WILL fuck himself up. If he's killing himself, a few run-ins with the cops will probably snap him out of it. You do know that the most popular thread on the Straight board here is the "I just smoked a huge bowl of pot" thread, don't you?

If he doesn't want to stay home, why make him? He's telling you loud and clear that he doesn't really need you anymore. Stop giving him money. (That last one can put an end to the drugs fairly fast, actually) Make it clear that any crimes against you will be met with, yes, cops. Give him food and shelter as, yes, required by law. You can still do that, right?

Bottom line: If he doesn't want to be your kid anymore, don't make him.

And then formally you let him go, as early as possible, and let him go grow up.

And if he ever comes back to you years later realizing how stupid he was and all the mistakes he made, you use all the money you saved by not sending him to some hellhole to send him to community college.

[Anonymous]

Programs do work and thats a fact. A good program, therapist, atmosphere and support from a community of people that want to help sounds like a recipe for something good. The fact is not all doctors are good, not all mechanics are good but their not all bad either. Taking these kids out of their envirnment while they try to figure things out is really not a bad thing. the first part of healing is admitting you have a problem. Why wait until you hit rock bottom to realize it and get the help know. It's obvious you guys have had either a bad experience with a program you just don't like them. But like I said before, not all doctors are bad. One other thing, if a person did'nt have goog parenting, how do we expect them to parent. Another scary thought, how about the kids were talking about becoming parents.  Now you can troll back.

[Anonymous]

Programs do work and thats a fact.

Then by all means, cite your source for this "fact".  Please show me the research (that does NOT mean parent surveys) that backs up this statement.

Taking these kids out of their envirnment while they try to figure things out is really not a bad thing.

Not in and of itself but when you combine it with forced treatment, isolation, coersion etc. not only makes it bad but dangerous.

the first part of healing is admitting you have a problem.  Why wait until you hit rock bottom to realize it and get the help know.

 :roll:


 

It's obvious you guys have had either a bad experience with a program you just don't like them. But like I said before, not all doctors are bad.

No comparison.  The medical profession is not bad, some doctors are.  The entire teen help methodology is fucked, based on fucked up games that a cult leader played with his followers.  You can't make it into something good.

One other thing, if a person did'nt have goog parenting, how do we expect them to parent. Another scary thought, how about the kids were talking about becoming parents.  

What the hell are you talking about?  That's not written very clearly.  Are you suggesting that kids will learn good parenting skills in these places?

Now you can troll back.

At least you admit what you are.

[Anonymous]

Julie,

You aren't to the point where you might consider a program.  You may be munching your words.

Your comment illustrates the cultish nature of The Program better than I could have ever done.

A normal parent criticizes you and you just assume that when their child is a teenager, they will "need" a program.

Ginger's right.  You people do think that The Program is necessary for everyone, or nearly everyone, and that you must evangelize for it.

If you were rational and had a solid grip on reality, even if Programs worked you'd admit that the likelihood of a random child "needing" one as a teen are vanishingly small.

You might intellectually acknowledge that most parents of most teens have no need for The Program, but in your gut, the first thing you assume about a parent who criticizes you is that they will need The Program.

Lady*, your Reality Check just bounced.

Julie

* or dude, but your writing sounds feminine.

[Anonymous]

The government statistics show that the best treatment for drug problems is community based care.

I had reminisced here about all the wild teenagers I'd seen and how they turned out okay, the kids who actually died and how they were garden variety teens and it was mostly bad luck, how the parents of wild children rode it out successfully with conventional parenting.  It was too long, so I had to delete it.

Condensed version:

The ninnies among any generation of parents always believe that their kids' generation are the wildest generation in the history of the world.  They're always wrong.

Ninnies make terrible parents.

Problem is, it's just about impossible to save a child from bad parents.

Keeping murderous parents from killing a child?  Yeah, you can usually do that by removing the kids to another home.

But saving a child from garden variety bad parents?  Just about impossible.

Some ninnies have enough money to harm their children, worse than average, by sending them to one of these Programs.  

You can't educate ninnies out of being ninnies.  The ignorant can be helped with education, but being a forty-year-old fool is virtually incurable.  

That's why Programs need to be made illegal.

Julie

[Nihilanthic]

:rofl: oh this is good shit.

The anon programmie cant post any proof a program works but say they do, and also tries to jsutify a useless program because a kid "isnt going anywhere" by cutting classes.

Theyre learning to SOCIALZE and HAVE FUN, and GROW UP, just not the way YOU want them to.

But yeah, you can custom tailor a nebulous 'program' that you cant name that works for a non existant problem and prove it with.... what?

Wishes and butts? Candy and nuts?

OH WHAT A WORLD IT WOULD BE!

[Anonymous]

:rofl: oh this is good shit.

The anon programmie cant post any proof a program works but say they do, and also tries to jsutify a useless program because a kid "isnt going anywhere" by cutting classes.

Theyre learning to SOCIALZE and HAVE FUN, and GROW UP, just not the way YOU want them to.

But yeah, you can custom tailor a nebulous 'program' that you cant name that works for a non existant problem and prove it with.... what?

Wishes and butts? Candy and nuts?

OH WHAT A WORLD IT WOULD BE!

nihil .. after yoou get off th floor, pls say if u r goin to reply to the earlier " you can't custom tailor torture to a real problem" bit .. means???    also the "Do tell me how much a teen gains by cutting virtually all classes, sneaking out, stealing, lying and using various drugs -- is that making them gain in the best years of their lives? Also please explain how to stop the behavior - even get the kid to stay home- without restricting what you view as the high and mighty "freedom". (Of course, that would be freedom to do as one wishes while snubbing parents except to demand financial support required by law or the like.)

[Anonymous]

So did you come up with any evidence that the programs are effective yet or are you going to continue to ignore the request?

[Anonymous]

So did you come up with any evidence that the programs are effective yet or are you going to continue to ignore the request?

bt, dt
problem is u won't accept them
good studies on effectiveness of good wilderness programs done by established academician, but "the industry" [select programs subject of study] cooperated.  so u figure study not good
other stuff mentioned by someone a few weeks ago got no counters
so, to repeat
bt, dt

[Anonymous]

Links to those please.  I'm not familiar with them and I'll decide on my own what I feel is qualified and reasonable thanks, but yes.  If the camp commissioned the study, that would make it suspect.  

I'll be waiting.