The Who

[RobertBruce]

Okay, I will write the apology letter myself and send it out since my name is on the thread; the rest of your data is useless.  I went thru this with you last year when you posted a list of kids deaths.  The first 3 or 4 I looked at died in a boating accident or a car accident at home and you were trying to blame the counselors and the school, as if they didn?t feel bad enough as it is.  The only requirements to make the list was to have been in a mental health facility or driving by one or the whim of the person keeping the data at the time, it had no value so I started my own which I post here.  I don?t pretend it is perfect but it maintains clear structure and is understandable.  It would be nice if fornits got involved, but I understand that y0u need to see the negative value of it first before you sign up.

Who the hell are you talking to?

[FLCLcowdude]

The reason cindy is so angry is because he doesn't get any pussy. He gets more than enough dick though! :rofl:

[TheWho]

Cut the drama Who. An oversight on my part due to multi-multi tasking. The error has been corrected on my list. Let me know if you find any others. So, 3 out of 11 are licensed.
.

Deborah, peoples names shouldn?t be posted like that unless you double check especially when peoples careers are being talked about.  I believe it is 4 out of 11, I think the source at ASR is more credible and is first hand knowledge.

And why aren't the Dir/Ass Dir licensed? I don't think you answered that

Don?t know, maybe they are.  Is it required that they be licensed?  I am not familiar with the specific law.

[RobertBruce]

I think the source at ASR is more credible and is first hand knowledge.

What source? You have no idea who this person was or if they even worked for ASR, youre just assuming because the information he provided works for your agenda.

This is why you have no credibility Cindy, you employ double standards in everything you do.

[Deborah]

I went thru this with you last year when you posted a list of kids deaths.  The first 3 or 4 I looked at died in a boating accident or a car accident at home and you were trying to blame the counselors and the school, as if they didn?t feel bad enough as it is.

I assume again that you are addressing me since we were working off my list of "Deaths In Programs", which states that these SEVEN kids were killed in "a boating accident". Can you describe how this accident happened?

The only requirements to make the list was to have been in a mental health facility or driving by one or the whim of the person keeping the data at the time

Not true.

it had no value so I started my own which I post here.  I don?t pretend it is perfect but it maintains clear structure and is understandable.  It would be nice if fornits got involved, but I understand that y0u need to see the negative value of it first before you sign up.

Your "list" doesn't include all deaths because that is not your agenda. You are looking at suicides/homicides in TBSs vs the real world. And that is precisely what you sh0uld do.

[Deborah]

Deborah, peoples names shouldn?t be posted like that unless you double check especially when peoples careers are being talked about.  I believe it is 4 out of 11, I think the source at ASR is more credible and is first hand knowledge.

Three. http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=20728

And why aren't the Dir/Ass Dir licensed? I don't think you answered that

Don?t know, maybe they are.  Is it required that they be licensed?  I am not familiar with the specific law.

You checked Beecher, check those guys. ASR is not licensed. If they were, yes they would need to be licensed as would any staff providing supervision to unlicensed staff.

[Troll Control]

Whooter Libby Jr., Quoting an Anon said:

"they have 4 licensed staff 2 licensed social workers, 1 licensed drug addictions counselor and 1 licensed mental health counselor. they have 3 or 4 counselors waiting for the next test.?

We've been 'round and 'round on your anonymous sources, Whooter.  even if your source is believable on his/her own merit (which can't be determined) the very fact that you repeat it destroys any credibility of the OP.

He who permits himself to tell a lie once, finds it much easier to do it a second and third time, till at length it becomes habitual; he tells lies without attending to it, and truths without the world's believing him. This falsehood of tongue leads to that of the heart, and in time depraves all its good dispositions.?

Thomas Jefferson

This is your lot, Whooter.  It's sad to say, considering you were actually trying to accomplish something (not quite sure what it was though , other than promoting programs or getting referral fees) and now there's really nothing that you can say that anybody believes.  It's too late and you're too far gone.

In talking with a couple other ASR supporters, I'm told that they agree with the premises of your argument - that ASR is a good place - but they have reported that you have done a great disservice by making anyone supporting ASR less credible by degrees due to your fabrications and faulty, unverifiable claims (one used the term "anonymous hearsay").

So, now I guess all that's left is to use your thread to brainstorm on how to get the authorites to review ASR and force it to register and license with the state as a Residential Treatment Center which will fundamentally alter the "program" and give voices and rights to the patients treated there, as delineated in the "patient bill of rights" Deb posted earlier.  

This will ADD VALUE to ASR for the kids and families who can be assured that someone is watching what happens at ASR and that there is a mechanism for reporting abuse and that allegations will be investigated and dealt with in accordance with the law.

This is a hell of a lot more protections than these kids have now, that's for sure.

[TheWho]

Deborah, peoples names shouldn?t be posted like that unless you double check especially when peoples careers are being talked about.  I believe it is 4 out of 11, I think the source at ASR is more credible and is first hand knowledge.

Three. http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=20728

And why aren't the Dir/Ass Dir licensed? I don't think you answered that

Don?t know, maybe they are.  Is it required that they be licensed?  I am not familiar with the specific law.

You checked Beecher, check those guys. ASR is not licensed. If they were, yes they would need to be licensed as would any staff providing supervision to unlicensed staff.

Good, so it looks like we have 3-4 licensed counselors.  So they have shown they have licensed employees.  Looks like the are in the process of doubling that figure in the near future.

[TheWho]

See DJ, you have come a long way.  I think you can finally see they have licensed employees.  It took a storm to get you to open your eyes but here we are.

DJ wrote:

So, now I guess all that's left is to use your thread to brainstorm on how to get the authorites to review ASR and force it to register and license with the state as a Residential Treatment Center which will fundamentally alter the "program" and give voices and rights to the patients treated there, as delineated in the "patient bill of rights" Deb posted earlier.

Great, lets get to it!  Its good to see you are looking at the larger picture.

See this isn?t too bad, doing something for the kids, for a change , will make you feel better, I guarantee it !!

[Troll Control]

Whooter, save your BS for someone who cares.  

The last time I checked (last year) ASR had no licensed employees, including the directors.  I now see, thanks to Deb, that there are a couple.  That's great. Still and all, ASR remains an unlicensed treatment center providing drug treatment and therapy illegally and providing mandatory group therapy three times a week facilitated illegally by unlicensed personnel - obviously Mass cannot allow them to continue operating as a "school," which they clearly are not.

See, Scooter, when someone presents facts I listen.  when you talk, I don't because you have a demonstrated inability to tell the truth and you consistently lie and manipulate for sole purpose of "one-upsmanship," not helping any kids.

My focus will be to have ASR investigated by the state, be licensed or be forced to shut down.  I'd prefer to see it shut down, but either way it will be better for the kids, for whom I advocate.  You, on the other hand, Scooter, advocate for the program - to make it more money and to try to hide it's illegal behavior - therefore you advocate against the best interests of the kids.  It's really that simple.

Now run along and collect some data or something while I set to work on shutting down your cash cow.

[TheWho]

DJ wrote:

See, Scooter, when someone presents facts I listen.

Thank you, it only took you about 100 pages to finally get it !!!!.  They have licensed employees, as I have been telling you all along, but you are so hell bent on winning or owning people, as you call it, to maintain your ego you forget about what is right or best for the kids.
If you are going to push for regulation, do it for the right reason.  Stay focused on what is best for the kids, put yourself aside and you will be more successful and your task will become easier for you.
Good luck!

[Troll Control]

No, you're incorrect again, Scooter.  I wasn't and am not "hell-bent" on anything.  I only demand proof/i], and, unlike you, am able to be satisfied with proper documentation.  It's called "maturity," Scooter.  You're a child in a man's body.

It's very, very simple. I don't believe a single word you say.  Therefore, I required a competent researcher with credibility (e.g. Deb) to pull the real data with easiliy verifiable sources, not something you and your imaginary friends have concocted.

So, now I am satisfied that they have three licensed staff, yes.  But your fantasy about future licensing has no weight whatsoever because it came from you with no sourcing.

None of this changes the underlying problem that ASR is operating an illegal drug treatment center and forcing mandatory, illegal counseling by unlicensed staff on their patients.  This is the real issue at hand and I intend to have the authorities deal with it accordingly.

Rest be assured, Scooter, that nothing you have said has influenced my judgement - I rely on mentally sound, credible people for counsel, not some crackpot liar from the internet.  Your only purpose here is to distract from the issues by posting lies and unverifiable assertions.  This is why nobody believes you. ::bangin::

[Anonymous]

"And why aren't the Dir/Ass Dir licensed? I don't think you answered that"
Because they are management and are not required to be unless they are providing any direct conseling to clients or clinical supervision to counselors.

[TheWho]

DJ wrote:

Scooter. You're a child in a man's body.

And who is the one resorting to name calling since your lies were exposed?  Ha,Ha,?.

The important thing is that you realize what I have been telling you for over 100 pages, whether you choose to believe sources at ASR, myself or Deborah, sooner or later I knew the facts would sink in

[Troll Control]

"And why aren't the Dir/Ass Dir licensed? I don't think you answered that"
Because they are management and are not required to be unless they are providing any direct conseling to clients or clinical supervision to counselors.

Hmmmm....The Counseling Director is unlicensed and not supervising counselors?  This doesn't make much sense to me.

Presumably he would be the one setting up the program and implementing it.

However, if what you're saying is indeed true, he would not need a license.  It does seem misleading though.  Maybe he should be called the "Program Manager" or something like that.

Who's supervising the drug rehab at ASR?