The Who

[RobertBruce]

Here's what we've conclude to this point:

ASR has operated for 10 (just as HLA did) as an unlicensed RTC.
They require group therapy 3X a week. And individual counseling- who know how often- site says weekly, Who says "as needed".
2 out of 11 of their "Clinical Counselors" possess licenses. Most of the bios don't even include the staff's education/degree.
Neither The Dir of Counseling (The Clinician) and Assoc Dir of Counseling are licensed.
One of their two Substance Abuse Counselors certification has lapsed.
It's unknown, but unlikely that their SA program is licensed.
After 10 years of operation ASRs academics aren't accredited.
Haven't gotten to the "teachers" yet. We'll see what 'tomorrow' brings.
.... I'm sure I've forgotten something....

That's not a bargain, or in the kids best interest. ASR adds NO VALUE to a kid's life.


Delude yourself however you like Cindy, parents can verify the truth for themselves, youre only embarrassing yourself.

[TheWho]

Deborah wrote:

ASR has operated for 10 (just as HLA did) as an unlicensed RTC.

They are not licensed to sell cars or have any licensed plumbers
either, but that doesn?t take away from the fact they provide a good valued service.

They require group therapy 3X a week. And individual counseling- who know how often- site says weekly, Who says "as needed".

Looks like we don?t know for sure?.  I would call the school.

2 out of 11 of their "Clinical Counselors" possess licenses. Most of the bios don't even include the staff's education/degree.
Neither The Dir of Counseling (The Clinician) and Assoc Dir of Counseling are licensed.
One of their two Substance Abuse Counselors certification has lapsed.
It's unknown, but unlikely that their SA program is licensed.

All your numbers are wrong and suspect, you have said this before and I have proven you wrong.
 

After 10 years of operation ASRs academics aren't accredited.

They have never been denied accreditation and are approved to give diplomas.  

Haven't gotten to the "teachers" yet. We'll see what 'tomorrow' brings.
.... I'm sure I've forgotten something....

Yes, accurate information.

[Deborah]

Deborah wrote:

2 out of 11 of their "Clinical Counselors" possess licenses. Most of the bios don't even include the staff's education/degree.
Neither The Dir of Counseling (The Clinician) and Assoc Dir of Counseling are licensed.
One of their two Substance Abuse Counselors certification has lapsed.
It's unknown, but unlikely that their SA program is licensed.

All your numbers are wrong and suspect, you have said this before and I have proven you wrong.

Prove that the information I provided above is inaccurate and I'll concede. Until you've "proven" nothing.

They have never been denied accreditation and are approved to give diplomas.

Under who's authority are they issuing diplomas? AIR issued them too, until the got caught.

[Deborah]

Deborah wrote:

The State agencies do have up to the minute information on licenses. That is precisely who programs (that function ethically) call when they are doing background/licensing checks on their employees. But, then, you know all this. You're hoping other parents believe that the "schools word is more accurate than the state's.  

Sure but lets say they hired more people or had staff changes etc. since the last time the site was updated.  Only the school would have the latest list of employees.

This is true. Turnover is extraordinarily high.
But, the current list of staff was accurate in the not too distant past, and may still be for all any of us know. No one's proven that it's inaccurate. So, we're all in agreement that we'll work with the data the program is currently providing to the pubic. We can review it again when they get around to updating their site.

[RobertBruce]

They are not licensed to sell cars or have any licensed plumbers

You forgot to add provide case work. Can you justify why they shouldnt be properly licensed? No, you cant.

but that doesn?t take away from the fact they provide a good valued service.

To who? The kids? Provide a study proving their services benefit the kids.

Looks like we don?t know for sure?. I would call the school.

So youre trying to claim again that the website is inaccurate? What kind of school purposely puts out misinformation like that? More likely they do have therapy 3x's a week since thats what they claim. You might call up your daughter and ask her. Let us know what she says.

All your numbers are wrong and suspect, you have said this before and I have proven you wrong.

When? Post the link. Cindy weve given you the names of all the employees and the link to the licensing board for Mass, its spelled out there very clearly who has a license and who doesnt. Were right and youre wrong. All youve proven to date is that some anonymous poster disagrees with us. This amounts to absolutly nothing.

They have never been denied accreditation and are approved to give diplomas.

Approved by who? They arent accredited Cindy. How do you know theyve never been denied? Did you verify this yourself? If thats true why after ten years havent then been accredited?

Yes, accurate information.

Oh wow, we must really be getting to you, you normally dont get sarcastic until youre really frustrated. Well little Cindy if you want to continue to rely on "some guy" as your source thats fine, but parents arent going to buy it. Sorry Cindy.

[TheWho]

One thing, I am working on is I am presently looking at TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools and their safety as it compares to public sector.  The NCES and CDC has published data for the public sector and I have put together an effort to collect data from the TBS side of things.  As we get further into it and start looking at other areas like Wilderness and bootcamps we may begin to see where the problem areas are and the schools which have the worst track records.  This will enable us to steer parents towards the better places and thereby help their kids.  This is only a start but, here is where we stand:


July 1, 1999 thru June 2000 [/u]

Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,537 Homicides  and 1,415 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 2 suicides.*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001  

Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 1 suicide.  (Data set still open)*
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002  

Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides.  ( Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003  

Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides  (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides.  ( Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004  

Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides.  ( Data set still open, 72 sources reviewed, mostly emails and news articles)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2004 thru June 2005  

The data from the NCES is incomplete at this time.  They are reporting an increase in suicide rates (at school) of over 100% from the previous year, but this is still in line with normal fluctuations from year to year and is below the 2002-2003 year levels.

Outside a TBS:   Data not posted as of 2/20/2007
 Inside a TBS    Data not posted as of 2/20/2007

TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles, posts and PM?s

[TheWho]

Deborah wrote:

The State agencies do have up to the minute information on licenses. That is precisely who programs (that function ethically) call when they are doing background/licensing checks on their employees. But, then, you know all this. You're hoping other parents believe that the "schools word is more accurate than the state's.  

Sure but lets say they hired more people or had staff changes etc. since the last time the site was updated.  Only the school would have the latest list of employees.

This is true. Turnover is extraordinarily high.
But, the current list of staff was accurate in the not too distant past, and may still be for all any of us know. No one's proven that it's inaccurate. So, we're all in agreement that we'll work with the data the program is currently providing to the pubic. We can review it again when they get around to updating their site.

I would like to stick with the most current data, but I think we can bridge it and come to a consensus.  We can note that they have reported 2 more licenses, in recent history, and up to 4 more on the way.

[Oz girl]

Why who is it not a red flag that staff turnover is so high? Even if ASR only employed licenced professionals, if they are all there for a limited time this is because there is something really wrong.

[Troll Control]

Deborah wrote:

The State agencies do have up to the minute information on licenses. That is precisely who programs (that function ethically) call when they are doing background/licensing checks on their employees. But, then, you know all this. You're hoping other parents believe that the "schools word is more accurate than the state's.  

Sure but lets say they hired more people or had staff changes etc. since the last time the site was updated.  Only the school would have the latest list of employees.

This is true. Turnover is extraordinarily high.
But, the current list of staff was accurate in the not too distant past, and may still be for all any of us know. No one's proven that it's inaccurate. So, we're all in agreement that we'll work with the data the program is currently providing to the pubic. We can review it again when they get around to updating their site.

I would like to stick with the most current data, but I think we can bridge it and come to a consensus.  We can note that they have reported 2 more licenses, in recent history, and up to 4 more on the way.

Wo way to verify this information, Who.  We cannot use this information because it has never been sourced and can't be verified. You're the only one in this thread who keeps on insisting data can be "created" and it looks like you're doing just that.  The fact that you're willing to use completely unverifiable data in an argument you've clearly lost is telling, as is the absolute insistence in your other topic, safety, that every single name be personally vetted by you.  Do you see the double-standard?  Do you see why this signals to readers that you are being far less than honest in your work?  Can you then see why you need to use empirically verifiable data so that you can have some degree of believability?  Do you now understand why you can't be believed at this time?  You need to learn how to concede points clearly, totally lost so that you can have some believability.  Do you see how people would not believe someone when the proponderance of the facts sugest that he or she is clearly, verifiably wrong?  Do you now see why nobody can believe you, even if they believe the same premises, because you have destroyed the whole topic?

[Troll Control]

DJ wrote:

Also, this "update the website" thing was the same tired BS you were peddling last year while trying to explain an ASR teacher's bio on their website - a teacher with no college degree at all!

Yes and when they updated the website your accusations went up in smoke and you embarrassed yourself and smeared a teacher?s name unnecessarily.  Why did you leave that out?

Double check your sources before making accusations about people.  It is their livelihood,  We went over this last year

This isn't exactly, true, Whooter.  What happened was that he either quit or was fired between then and now.  He no longer works at ASR, but he sure did teach there without a degree of any kind, as you have already admitted.

This is what's called "lying," Scooter.  Don't you ever get tired of embarrassing yourself?  It's tough to watch all this self-flagellating.

[TheWho]

Deborah wrote:

The State agencies do have up to the minute information on licenses. That is precisely who programs (that function ethically) call when they are doing background/licensing checks on their employees. But, then, you know all this. You're hoping other parents believe that the "schools word is more accurate than the state's.  

Sure but lets say they hired more people or had staff changes etc. since the last time the site was updated.  Only the school would have the latest list of employees.

This is true. Turnover is extraordinarily high.
But, the current list of staff was accurate in the not too distant past, and may still be for all any of us know. No one's proven that it's inaccurate. So, we're all in agreement that we'll work with the data the program is currently providing to the pubic. We can review it again when they get around to updating their site.

I would like to stick with the most current data, but I think we can bridge it and come to a consensus.  We can note that they have reported 2 more licenses, in recent history, and up to 4 more on the way.

Wo way to verify this information, Who.  We cannot use this information because it has never been sourced and can't be verified. You're the only one in this thread who keeps on insisting data can be "created" and it looks like you're doing just that.  The fact that you're willing to use completely unverifiable data in an argument you've clearly lost is telling, as is the absolute insistence in your other topic, safety, that every single name be personally vetted by you.  Do you see the double-standard?  Do you see why this signals to readers that you are being far less than honest in your work?  Can you then see why I want you to use empirically verifiable data so that you can have some degree of believability?  Do you now understand why you can't be believed at this time?  I want you to learn how to concede points clearly, totally lost so that you can have some believability.  Do you see how people would not believe someone when the proponderance of the facts sugest that he or she is clearly, verifiably wrong?  Do you now see why nobody can believe you, even if they believe the same premises, because you have destroyed the whole topic?

I typically would but that would make for a double standard.  If a graduate of one of the schools came out and said, so and so was fired or the nurse quit and we don?t know who is handing out meds then this is taken to be fact.  It has happened on HLA I believe.  We don?t turn to the web site and say ?Well she is still listed, so we have to go with that?.  The guest poster was very knowledgeable about the school HLA and ASR.  He wasn?t pro ASR by any means if any of you recall, but provided us with some up to date info on the school as far as licenses go and I think it should be considered.

[Troll Control]

The Who is pretty darned narcissistic, and his self-focus is making it tough for information about ASR to actually be in the thread about ASR.

Which I'm sure is just exactly what he wants.

He's a troll.

Julie

Thank God!!!  That's what I've been trying to say.  Robert seems intent on proving him wrong and in that process a lot of good, clear, concise information is being lost along with a lot of frustrated readers. We all know he's wrong.  Anyone with half a brain who has read even a few pages of the thread knows he's wrong.  Do you really plan on keeping this up until he admits he's wrong?   Cuz it ain't gonna happen and a lot time's being wasted.  Even regulars are getting tired of it and leaving.

 :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

Spreading the joy in other threads, too, Scooter?  Dang, you're busy acting foolish all over this place.

[Anonymous]

If a graduate of one of the schools came out and said, so and so was fired or the nurse quit and we don?t know who is handing out meds then this is taken to be fact.

This is because they are believable, and you are not.

It's just that simple.

DJ, Deb- if neither of you have started compiling REAL license information to deliver to Massachussetts by now, shame on you both for wasting time responding to this retard.

[Troll Control]

A reporter's look at a boarding school for troubled teens is troubling
Reviewed by Patti Ghezzi
February 27, 2005

Five thousand dollars a month.

That's how much parents shell out to a western Massachusetts boarding school in hopes it can steer their teenagers off the path of drugs, promiscuity, video game addiction and belligerence.

Families arrive at the Academy at Swift River so ready to get their unruly child out of the house that few ask for statistics demonstrating a successful track record.

Good thing. The school, located in a former dairy, is run by a for-profit company and DOES NOT COMPILE SUCH FIGURES.

They cry. They curse. They conspire to run away. They disclose secrets about abuses suffered. One day, a student has an apparent breakthrough in therapy. Soon after, she's having sex with a classmate in the bathroom.

One unorthodox punishment is to withhold spices ? INCLUDING SALT ? from students' food.

Swift River revolves around ritual, yet the staff struggles, and sometimes fails, to keep order. The intensity of the work leads to burnout. One beloved teacher is later spotted by a former student working in a New York deli.

Marcus shows how out-of-control teenagers have spawned a lucrative industry. Consultants advise parents on the best therapeutic boarding schools. Psychologists apply labels. Drug companies keep the pills coming.

The only misfit in this well-crafted book is the title: It's unclear what it takes to pull these kids through. Counselors acknowledge some would outgrow their problems without Swift River. And one kid who absorbs all the nurturing Swift River can provide still ends up dead of an overdose.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib ... teens.html

[TheWho]

If a graduate of one of the schools came out and said, so and so was fired or the nurse quit and we don?t know who is handing out meds then this is taken to be fact.

This is because they are believable, and you are not.

It's just that simple.

DJ, Deb- if neither of you have started compiling REAL license information to deliver to Massachussetts by now, shame on you both for wasting time responding to this retard.

and there we go that?s my point.......we use info based on if the person feels they are believable or not in other arguments.  I feel this person is bringing accurate information to the table and it should be considered in this argument.

It's just that simple.