The Who

[RobertBruce]

Here are the real numbers for one of the years. Cindy would prefer we not mention this but who cares what that whackjob wants.

So for the 2001-2002 school year we have the following data regarding deaths in the public school/sector versus those in the private theraputic sector:

Out of 52,000,000 kids in the public sector 17 were killed while in school.

Translating to:

1 out of every 3,058,824 kids being murdered while in school

Out of those same 52,000,000 kids in the public sector 5 committed suicide while in school.

Translating to:


1 out of every 10,400,000 kids killing themselves while in public school.

Of those same 52,000,000 2,036 were killed in the public sector.

Translating to:

1 out of every 25540 kids being killed

Of those same 52,000,000 kids 1,772 kids committed suicide.

Translating to

1 out of every 29345 kids in the public sector killing themselves

In the private theraputic sector out of 20,000 kids 2 were murdered by staff members.

Translating to:

1 out of every 10,000 kids being murdered by staff members.

Of those same 20,000 kids in the private theraputic sector 1 committed suicide.

Translating to:

1 out of every 20,000 kids killing themselves.


At least its an improvement over the previous years I guess.

http://nces.ed.gov/programs/crimeindica ... le_1.1.asp

[TheWho]

Hey, welcome back ....Bob, just to be clear to the parents..... You provide a link to to the NCES to support some of your data and then go around stating it is unreliable..

Bob Wrote:

....apparently theres so much discrepancy at this point no one can rely on the NCES or the CDC for accurate information regarding how many deaths occured.

Oh wait a minute maybe he means just some of the data is inaccurate, the part that he uses...Oh...okay.  I think we understand now.  Your data looks good Bob, Thanks

[RobertBruce]

Youre right Cindy the data from the NCES and the CDC is unreliable. We can however rely on the numbers concerning the deaths in the PTS.

Those numbers are rock solid. Thank you for reminding parents that they need to take your data with a whole shaker of salt.


Now, go answer the question.

[TheWho]

.........the data from the NCES and the CDC is unreliable. We can however rely on the numbers concerning the deaths in the PTS.
.

NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention


Thanks for clearing up your position, Bob

[RobertBruce]

It was clear to everyone but you dumbass.

Now go answer the question.

[TheWho]

It was clear to everyone but you dumbass.

Now go answer the question.

Bob, you always seem so angry and impatient...try to relax and enjoy your time here.  We are all working towards the same goal of helping the kids.... flying off the handle never helps anyone.... a little more please and thank you would go a long ways

[RobertBruce]

You still seem to be confused Cindy or at the very least hoping others will be confused by your program trained double speak.

You arent helping these kids, in fact youre hurting them with your propoganda nonsense and your bullshit.  

I do care about these kids Cindy, because I was once one of them. You dismiss their deaths and abuse like its nothing and then you want to claim we're working towards the same goal. You want to claim youre helping these kids?


Seriously Cindy, fuck off.

[TheWho]

One thing, I am working on is I am presently looking at TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools and their safety as it compares to public sector.  The NCES and CDC has published data for the public sector and I have put together an effort to collect data from the TBS side of things.  As we get further into it and start looking at other areas like Juvenal lock downs,Wilderness and bootcamps etc. we may begin to see where the problem areas are and the schools which have the worst track records.  This will enable us to steer parents towards the better places and thereby help their kids.  This is only a start but, here is where we stand:


July 1, 1999 thru June 2000 [/u]

Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,537 Homicides  and 1,415 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 2 suicides.*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001  

Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 1 suicide.  (Data set still open)*
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002  

Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides.  ( Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003  

Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides  (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides.  ( Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004  

Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides.  ( Data set still open, 72 sources reviewed, mostly emails and news articles)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2004 thru June 2005  

The data from the NCES is incomplete at this time.  They are reporting an increase in suicide rates (at school) of over 100% from the previous year, but this is still in line with normal fluctuations from year to year and is below the 2002-2003 year levels.

Outside a TBS:   Data not posted as of 2/20/2007
 Inside a TBS    Data not posted as of 2/20/2007

TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles, posts and PM?s

[RobertBruce]

You started out with such promise.....

I am working on is I am presently looking at TBS -

Stick with that "I" Cindy. Recognize that youre alone.

I have put together an effort to collect data from the TBS side of things.

My hopes are raised even higher! You havent tried to collect anything but at least youre still with the "I".

This is only a start but, here is where we stand:

Shit. You failed again. Its not "we" Cindy, its just you. Whatsmore I wonder what you hope to prove with your data. Let's say "we" did buy into your bullshit and were willing to exclude all the other information parents need, (still waiting for you to explain to me how youre qualified to determine such a thing, but youre a coward so you wont answer) what's been proven? That less kids die in your definition of a TBS? Fine. That doesnt begin to address the amount of physical, sexual, emotional, or mental abuse that is prevalent throughout the TBS (again your definition) industry. So even if we and parents bought into your nonsense, all youve done is show parents that their kids might be less likely to die, but theyre still going to be abused.


With that in mind I wonder if youll now own up to your position and answer the question. Let me know if you need a reminder.

[TheWho]

Bob Wrote:

?. That less kids die in your definition of a TBS? Fine.

This was one of the areas we are tracking, yes.  We will be expanding this search to look at other areas of the industry as well which will allow us to examine and utilize some of the data you had sent us, Bob.  I believe most of what you had sent us was from Juvenal lock ups, Boot camps and private homes.  This area will be covered also.

That doesnt begin to address the amount of physical, sexual, emotional, or mental abuse that is prevalent throughout the TBS (again your definition) industry. So even if we and parents bought into your nonsense, all youve done is show parents that their kids might be less likely to die, but theyre still going to be abused.

These are great points, Bob, the data shows the kids are safer on a physical level as far as homicides and suicides which is only a piece of the information a parent needs.  Knowing that their child is going to be free from abuse, being raped or beaten up is a must.  So statistics will be needed to be collected to reflect how the TBS?s compare to a child?s home environment and public school environment.  We are not sure at this point how this will be approached or if numbers are available for the public sector.  But if we can get numbers on both sides this would be a great comparison.

With that in mind I wonder if youll now own up to your position and answer the question. Let me know if you need a reminder.

What question are you referring to?

[Anonymous]

TheWho, what you say has nothing whatsoever to do with the actual data, which reflects several kids killed that you still won't acknowledge.

(That was just for the parents out there- not you)

[RobertBruce]

This was one of the areas we are tracking, yes. We will be expanding this search to look at other areas of the industry as well which will allow us to examine and utilize some of the data you had sent us, Bob. I believe most of what you had sent us was from Juvenal lock ups, Boot camps and private homes. This area will be covered also.

Theyve already been covered Cindy, youre just behind the class. Im curious though, why have you switched to "we" and "us" again. I tried to get the posters you claim to talk to to reveal themselves. They could not do so because they dont exist. Youre alone, no one is on your side, no one believes you.

These are great points, Bob, the data shows the kids are safer on a physical level as far as homicides and suicides which is only a piece of the information a parent needs. Knowing that their child is going to be free from abuse, being raped or beaten up is a must. So statistics will be needed to be collected to reflect how the TBS?s compare to a child?s home environment and public school environment. We are not sure at this point how this will be approached or if numbers are available for the public sector. But if we can get numbers on both sides this would be a great comparison.

Again with all these "we"'s. Cindy where are your supporters? Where are the people you claim to discuss these matters with?

What question are you referring to?

Oh Cindy, why must you always play games?

Cindy,

Is it your opinion that all TBS's are good and no children have ever been abused at a TBS?

A yes or no will suffice.

[TheWho]

TheWho, what you say has nothing whatsoever to do with the actual data, which reflects several kids killed that you still won't acknowledge.

(That was just for the parents out there- not you)

Well, milk, this is the place to do it, lets add them in!!  

Which TBS?  Was it a suicide or Homicide?  and just give me the names and time frame so I can get them in the right year and place them in the history file.

I will be updating the data set this evening if you had the info today that would be great.

[RobertBruce]

Idiot you already have the names, you just dont want to count them because they go against your agenda. Now go answer the question.

[TheWho]

Bob wrote:

Is it your opinion that all TBS's are good and no children have ever been abused at a TBS?

I don?t and never have thought in terms of absolutes.  I don?t believe all churches are good, all people are good, all schools are good nor all TBS?s are good.  Children are abused everywhere, in school, TBS?s, Church at home with there family and by family members, which is awful but a fact of life.
What we need to do is remove our child from the unsafe environment and get them to a safe one.  If they are unsafe at home, then get them the heck out and into a safe place.  If they are in some lockup somewhere, get them out to someplace safe.  TBS?s provide this but like anything else parents need to do their homework.