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Author Topic: The Who  (Read 793491 times)

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Offline TheWho

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The Who
« Reply #285 on: January 10, 2007, 03:16:53 PM »
I think like anything else you can get some bad people that need to be weeded out, some kids may get teased or singled out without just cause and have a bad experience which can draw a cloud over the entire industry..  But this is a problem across the whole spectrum of facilities, highschools, camps, summer programs etc. that are entrusted to educate our kids.
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Offline Nihilanthic

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« Reply #286 on: January 10, 2007, 03:20:19 PM »
You're trying to pigeonhole years of consisent allegations of very serious, horrible abuse as teasing or unfair singling out?

Then you load the language by saying how entrusted it all is, and compare the BM industry to a child-care spectrum?

The BM industry exists distinct from the mainstream, and then some, and its had 30+ years to prove itself and still has not!

Wow, you should be the guy the press talks to in that little area of the Whitehouse we see on the talking heads every night... jesus.
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DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline TheWho

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« Reply #287 on: January 10, 2007, 03:31:10 PM »
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
You're trying to pigeonhole years of consisent allegations of very serious, horrible abuse as teasing or unfair singling out?

Then you load the language by saying how entrusted it all is, and compare the BM industry to a child-care spectrum?

The BM industry exists distinct from the mainstream, and then some, and its had 30+ years to prove itself and still has not!

Wow, you should be the guy the press talks to in that little area of the Whitehouse we see on the talking heads every night... jesus.


We entrust our kids to others everyday some more than others and the industry is doing well, growing and improving every year.  The industry has been thriving for over 30 years,  if there was a systemic problem it would have surfaced by now and the schools would be shut down.  I am surprised you take such a negative view!
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Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #288 on: January 10, 2007, 03:31:28 PM »
Quote from: ""TheWho""
I think like anything else you can get some bad people that need to be weeded out, some kids may get teased or singled out without just cause and have a bad experience which can draw a cloud over the entire industry..  But this is a problem across the whole spectrum of facilities, highschools, camps, summer programs etc. that are entrusted to educate our kids.


This is one of the most genuinely stupid posters I have ever seen.  Dude, are you whacked out on some hardcore shit, or are you naturally stupid?
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Offline Nihilanthic

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« Reply #289 on: January 10, 2007, 03:35:33 PM »
Entrusting to institutions with tons of oversight like a school? Yeah.

Entrusting to something with zero oversight? No.

Also, uh, that systemic problem has surfaced, and it's why we're all here.

 :question: lol...
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DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline egypt has pyramids

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« Reply #290 on: January 10, 2007, 03:36:00 PM »
Quote
We entrust our kids to others everyday some more than others and the industry is doing well, growing and improving every year. The industry has been thriving for over 30 years, if there was a systemic problem it would have surfaced by now and the schools would be shut down. I am surprised you take such a negative view!


Well you have to remember rule#1 in this industry is, perception is reality. So they keep the ugly stuff hidden away from parents and then convince them anything their kid says is lies. There are two sides to this industry and parents only see one. The very fact this industry is thriving, should give anyone a negative view! What does that say about parents these days? The only thing that changed is income level and perception... hmm.
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Offline TheWho

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« Reply #291 on: January 10, 2007, 03:36:42 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""TheWho""
I think like anything else you can get some bad people that need to be weeded out, some kids may get teased or singled out without just cause and have a bad experience which can draw a cloud over the entire industry..  But this is a problem across the whole spectrum of facilities, highschools, camps, summer programs etc. that are entrusted to educate our kids.

This is one of the most genuinely stupid posters I have ever seen. Dude, are you whacked out on some hardcore shit, or are you naturally stupid?


Well !!!  Tilt your hand, show us what you got........ you dont sound like your pushing out more than 20 watts yourself.
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Offline Nihilanthic

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« Reply #292 on: January 10, 2007, 03:37:27 PM »
The entire country has undergone a shift away from fact and criticsm and reason towards belief and faith for decades, it would seem.

Go figure. We lose our greatest rival and threat ever (The Soviet Union) and we lose our direction. Figures, though.

Now if only all these terrorists would take over a large country...  :rofl:
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DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Nihilanthic

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« Reply #293 on: January 10, 2007, 03:39:26 PM »
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""TheWho""
I think like anything else you can get some bad people that need to be weeded out, some kids may get teased or singled out without just cause and have a bad experience which can draw a cloud over the entire industry..  But this is a problem across the whole spectrum of facilities, highschools, camps, summer programs etc. that are entrusted to educate our kids.

This is one of the most genuinely stupid posters I have ever seen. Dude, are you whacked out on some hardcore shit, or are you naturally stupid?

Well !!!  Tilt your hand, show us what you got........ you dont sound like your pushing out more than 20 watts yourself.


Still doesn't change the fact that in 30 years not one program has ever proven they do any good at all... or that any program has openly advertised what they actually do to kids, and admit its not therapy or treatment for anything.

Unless of course you think a wilderness camp is a good place for a kid with Aspergers, in which case I would like to introduce you to a psychologist who actually deals with them, the family of one, or a person who actually has it themself... http://www.aspiesforfreedom.com/ <- why not go bug them yourself?
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DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline egypt has pyramids

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« Reply #294 on: January 10, 2007, 03:39:47 PM »
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn_LFdbYLqw&mode=related&search= 'restraint'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BN0fRnnq ... ed&search= a 'wilderness' use of pain compliance.

BTW, those techniques can cause serious physical injury (joint locks especially... wtf?) besides the psychological trauma of being repeatedly dominated and painfully forced into doing things you don't want to do.

But its ALL PERSPECTIVE, right?


Perception is reality. These videos are fucking disturbing if you just watch them out of context. But pretend you are a parent, and you are being told this kid is a spoiled brat, hit her mother repeatedly and then they show you a video of the same girl a year later singing praises of the program!

The high price tag of the programs is not for nice accomodations, or nice food, or professional staff. No. It is for one thing, to keep up the perception. With parent communications, in the press, in society at large. It's a high price.
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Offline Nihilanthic

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« Reply #295 on: January 10, 2007, 03:42:50 PM »
You showed me a child being tortured into compliance singing the praises of it and I would say "well no shit, you tortured her until she did!"

They are disturbing IN context as well, becasue I know what the fuck a wilderness camp does!

And that high price is what the kid paid... and what staff is going to pay with their souls sooner or later. Just go ask TSW.
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DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline TheWho

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« Reply #296 on: January 10, 2007, 03:44:30 PM »
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
Entrusting to institutions with tons of oversight like a school? Yeah.

Entrusting to something with zero oversight? No.

Also, uh, that systemic problem has surfaced, and it's why we're all here.

 :question: lol...


I think you could find people unhappy with just about anything, any school, business, industry.  People have been unhappy at Harvard, suicides at MIT, sexual miss-conduct at both involving people who should be caring for these students.  But most of the energy in those situations is put into solving the problems....improving conditions, not closing the institutions.  I think that is a key difference, adding value vs becoming part of the problem.
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Offline Nihilanthic

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« Reply #297 on: January 10, 2007, 03:48:57 PM »
More spinning. You're a pro or just persistant.

The crux of the problem, what makes a program a program, has not been addressed. You also can not correlate complaints about Harvard or MIT with someone being kept coersively against their will in a facility that only breaks them down as a GOAL of their 'treatment' and forces disclosure to elicit behavior modification! They are completely different things.

The problems with a programs is they are not merely therapeutic camping trips or therapeutic schools, respectively, they're camping trips that use the austere environment to break them down and keep them scared and isolated, and facilities that isolate them and use LGAT methods, level systems, and BITE-model conditions and activities by staff to break them down, make them disclose everything, and force them into compliance... while keeping them scared and isolated.

Oh, and before I forget...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_analogy
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DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline egypt has pyramids

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« Reply #298 on: January 10, 2007, 03:52:08 PM »
I don't know if parents necessarily would find those videos disturbing. After a decade daily talk shows like Jessy Raphael, Maury Povich, and the rest. I remember coming home from school and turn on the TV and almost everyday it was a boot camp instructor screaming at those kids. Then they were shipped off for a week, and came back on the show, obviously frightened, shaking sometimes and would apologize to their parents in front of everyone.

This shit is live theater to most people. Not everybody has empathy for this situation and consider it abuse.
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Offline Nihilanthic

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« Reply #299 on: January 10, 2007, 03:53:16 PM »
Lack of empathy is probably why this happens... it leads to apathy.

I can't help but imagine that being done to me and thus imagine what it feels like to have to go through that, and thats why I'm here... still here, rather.

Good point.
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DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."
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