If not Elan Where? Help for parent of 15 y/o, please!

[Anonymous]

"Behavioristic Psychotherapy - That type of psychotherapy that seeks to change abnormal or maladaptive behavior  patterns by the use of extinction and inhibitory processes and/or positive and negative reinforces in classical and operant conditioning situations".

Skinner has reformed and put into practice introducing new concepts such as the "operant conditioning", from the theory inicially created by  John B. Watson, based on the work of Ivan Pavlov, a psychologist who used to study animals' responses to conditioning.

The critics to behavirism are quite simple:

For one, it foccuses on external behavior and disconsiders the individual's mind. It's only aplliable if one's apart from their natural and social environment. Internal thoughts and feelings are completelly ignored, the only relations that count are based on stimuli/response.
Roediger says: "The brain is no mere passive memory bank of behavior/environment interactions".

I could go on and on showing behaviorism's uneffectiveness basing on the critics by many academicists, psychologists, neuroscientis, among others that have breaken the main principles of behaviorism, the same ones apropiated by Elan.

The results of Elan's treatment express the results of radical behaviorism applied to adolescents. Just as I said, lab rats.

[Troll Control]

It's also worth noting that BM only works under the very strict laboratory conditions under which it is employed.  Any new behaviors are not generalized to other environments, nor do extinct behaviors remain extinct after a change in environment.

On top of that, behaviorism has never been shown to work in human subject even under laboratory conditions.

It's junk science, period.

[Anonymous]

Good point.

The authors you've mentioned... Just by curiosity, do you happen to be a phsychologist?
Perhaps you could help me with my research.

[Anonymous]

NOT ELAN :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:

[Anonymous]

NOT ELAN :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:

[Anonymous]

NOT ELAN :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:

[TheWho]

On 2006-05-04 10:24:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:

"It's not an exact fit for what you requested, but it has been determined that "program kids" are 434 times more likely to die before age 18 than non-program kids.



The numbers were derived from several sources, but it boils down to 1 in 1 million death rate for "non-program kids" and 1 in 2,308 in "program kids."



That is astounding data.
"

DJ, I know where those numbers came from and you totally misused the data.  You should site sources.  Some of the numbers you site are from uncontrolled sources.  The national data came from a viable source, the program data came from some guy in his basement with a calculator.  Its not right that you do that. [ This Message was edited by: TheWho on 2006-05-05 18:30 ]

[Anonymous]

Perhaps DJ's source is not quite reliable. Then again, what I want to ask is if you honestly hold any illusions on the national data.
Do you take what the well-known news report as absolute truths? Don't you ever question what's behind these numbers, if they aren't manipulated to the advantage of certain interests, to back-up some info or for political propaganda? I mean, do you hold any illusions on the national press' neutral view?

I don't. They're just numbers, the same way DJ's posted some numbers disreguarding its source. Just as reliable as the national press. What I'm interested on are beyond numbers, but rather personnal reports from ex-residents, ex-staff members, psychologists, etc. Meaning, rather qualitative questions than quantitative. Although, they happen to be more subjective, words can get a lot deeper and a lot more substantial.

[Anonymous]

Hey dysfunction, I see you have a new avatar!

[Anonymous]

On 2006-05-04 10:24:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:

"It's not an exact fit for what you requested, but it has been determined that "program kids" are 434 times more likely to die before age 18 than non-program kids.



The numbers were derived from several sources, but it boils down to 1 in 1 million death rate for "non-program kids" and 1 in 2,308 in "program kids."



That is astounding data.
"

Has it never occured to you, that this astounding percentage, is highly due to the fact that MOST kids end up at "PROGRAMS" because they ALREADY have MAJOR issues?

You can't believe that ALL these places mess kids up more that they already were.
Some people are destined to have psyological problems that cannot be fixed.

[Anonymous]

Perhaps... That's why I don't believe in numbers, but a rather qualitative analysis based on each case, taking into consideration the conditions that lead the kid to Elan in the first place (or other simillar institutions).
But we can't deny the traumas that Elan has caused in many people and the uneffectiveness of its methods expressed by its results. Well, people send their kids to Elan expecting good results from the program, right? We can't use the fact that "the kid already had traumas when sent to Elan" as an excuse as to how come he/she spent 2-3 years being abused, and still, the traumas remain. I'd go further than that claiming that Elan creates new traumas, but guess you're right when you say that we can't just vomit a bunch of numbers not considering the individual previous conditions. Good point there.

[Anonymous]

It's the mom again, here.  I have to use the library computer because the one in our house is in my son's room - enough said.  For the poster who smells a rat... no rat here, same parent, same problems.  Sadly, it is too late for my son to stay in our home.  His situation is exceptionally complicated and frankly, each of the schools that I've looked at have said it's a shame you can't make this work at home because he is essentially a great kid.  That has never been an issue.  The issue is education - the education that he plain and simply is not receiving at home.  We've tried home tutoring (he was sick for 3 years with a physical illness), home schooling and just plain ole' winging it - nothing has worked he simply won't do anything anymore.  As a parent and a college grad (not that it matters except to illustrate that I'm not totally retarded) I'm obligated to see that my son not only receives an education but also morally obligated to see that my son is at least prepared enough that when the time comes for him to live independently in society he is not an obvious drain on public resources.  At this point, I've failed and so has he at least on this front.  
I appreciate all of the input that I've received.  If you are wondering why I would post on this board, why not?  You guys know best what these schools are like.  The reality at least from my limiting-knowing perspective is that no one grows up hoping that they will wind up at one of these schools, shit happens though.  As a parent who also didn't wish to be looking at any of these schools, I have to deal with the hand that has been dealt and work with it.

thanks again for all the comments.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-05-04 09:54:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Your little lion has a thorn in his paw...it shouldnt matter how much it fucking hurts him or you to pull that fucking thorn out...DO IT!

Or he will be limping for the rest of his life.



 

"

It's the Mom again responding...  I'm gonna take a giant leap here and assume that you don't have kids yourself or at least not teenagers, yet.  I don't think you would sound so cavalier if you did - if I'm wrong it's not the first time.

Believe me I would not be wasting my time or yours checking out "your" website unless I was seriously concerned with where my "little lion" was heading.  I want to help my son, not hurt him.  That's my job as a parent.  It's safe to say that after all that I've read and saw in my one visit to Elan that this is not the answer for him or me.  We've chosen Chamberlain, instead.  tx for the input, I guess.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-05-02 12:34:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Talk to your 15 year-old, he´s too young to be sent away. I´m sure the problem isn´t quite simple and easy to solve, but institutionalizing him will only create new problems. Show your son that you love him, that you´re willing to understand him, but don´t take the easy way (as a mother) sending him far far away."

Mom, here.  If you read nothing else in any of my posts please let me make one thing perfectly fucking clear, there is absolutely nothing easy about sending my son away.  I went to boarding school when I was in high school - my parents rejoiced... I was a true pain in the ass - in hindsight it's lucky I didn't wind up at Elan - I certainly could have.  This is not the same thing, I'm not looking at boarding schools, as all of you well know.  That having been said, I love my son more than any human on the planet and I've invested 24 hours a day trying to save him these past three years that he's been in our home - not at school. It is time for him to save himself for his own sake.  It's clear I can't do it for him nor am I helping him by trying.  Were there another option for a 15 year old, I would certainly try it.  He's too young, too ill-equipped to live independently, needs to be educated and too tough to live with as a family member right now to continue the way we are going.

Easy way out?  I don't think so.

[Anonymous]

He needs to help himself. True. I have to be truelly ceptical here, by saying that he won't find the "tools" to save himself in those placements, apart from society. Whatever possible change that might occur won't go beyond the mechanical boundaries, since he's already placed on a bubble, excluded from his natural environment. This is my point.'

I'm not questioning your feelings toward your son, I believe you truelly love him, my question is how do you express your feelings to him? Are you communicating? Why... or why not? How well do you communicate? What can you do to approach your son? There are so many questions you should ask yourself before sending him away. Perhaps I'm a little late here, you've already been there. If you're fully convinced about sending him to a placement, then I guess you should follow Tat's advice and try to be cautious on where you're sending your kid.