Author Topic: What A Long Strange Program It's Been  (Read 17238 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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What A Long Strange Program It's Been
« Reply #105 on: August 10, 2006, 05:45:11 PM »
Yes, as I said before I agree that Mel and Virg were not the same, by any stretch of the imagination.  But we'll just have to disagree on the rest.  I believe whole-heartedly that Mel knew of the abuses, knew of the styles of treatment.  He may not have been aware of every incident but he knew HOW the program worked.  I'll take your word for it that he intended to do some good but once he got in and saw the methodology he should have known better.  Even conceding (for the sake of argument only)  that he didn't know, he should have.  There would be no excuse in the world not to.  It's not like they were isolated incidents, it was the entire structure of the place and if he didn't know it's because he closed his eyes to it.  I might feel differently if I thought he took any resonsibility at all for his part in the mindfuck, but he never has to my knowledge.

Just my $.02.  I'll drop it now.
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Offline Anonymous

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What A Long Strange Program It's Been
« Reply #106 on: August 10, 2006, 06:17:49 PM »
but he never has to my knowledge

i agree with you there......this is why i want to talk to him personally.....for my own selfish reasons,i have to know......if i can get the chance to talk to him , i'll let you know{all of you} ......i'm really not concerned whether he knew of the abuses or not,i'm sure he did.....just remember this,they weren't viewed as abuses back then,they were viewed as "therapy".......remember,straight was considered "revolutionary" etc........what i want to know is what he thinks about it now....has he changed his views on the whole thing,or what?...i think now,this is more important to me than whether he knew about the abuses.......he knew.....at least he knew that there were some bad practices being done back then....i don't expect him to know everything that went on in there.....thats just not possible.........i want to know his take on all of it now.......i think this is important for all of us........i don't hold anything against him personally....at least not yet........he was sucked into that place just like our own parents!.........Miller only showed him what miller wanted him to see......i want to know if he thinks that straight was wrong.....if it was a big mistake in his life to be part of it....before i go and say he was a jerk etc........you know?......hippie
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Offline Anonymous

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What A Long Strange Program It's Been
« Reply #107 on: August 10, 2006, 06:38:34 PM »
Quote
i'm really not concerned whether he knew of the abuses or not,i'm sure he did....

Yes, so am I.  That's been my point all along.

Quote
.just remember this,they weren't viewed as abuses back then,they were viewed as "therapy".......remember,straight was considered "revolutionary" etc.......

Only by a few.  Most saw it for what it was.

Quote
.what i want to know is what he thinks about it now....has he changed his views on the whole thing,or what?...i think now,this is more important to me than whether he knew about the abuses.......he knew.....at least he knew that there were some bad practices being done back then....i don't expect him to know everything that went on in there.....thats just not possible.........i want to know his take on all of it now......

Agreed.  I'd like to know too.

Quote
he was sucked into that place just like our own parents!.........Miller only showed him what miller wanted him to see.....

So now Mel is a victim here?  Our parents didn't have access to raps that were going on.  Our parents didn't have access to the staff meetings.  Miller wasn't there with him every minute of the day.  Mel had plenty of opportunity to know what was going on, especially after he got his own program to run.  If he didn't, shame on him

Quote
.i want to know if he thinks that straight was wrong.....if it was a big mistake in his life to be part of it....before i go and say he was a jerk etc........you know?......hippie


No I don't know.  I think he was a jerk for standing by and doing nothing to prevent what happened back then.  I think he's a jerk for keeping silent all these years about it.  I'm still interested to know what he thinks now and I hope he realises some things but it doesn't change my opinion of how he behaved back then.  It was wrong, dead wrong.  There is no way in hell that he couldn't have known.
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Offline Anonymous

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What A Long Strange Program It's Been
« Reply #108 on: August 10, 2006, 07:43:19 PM »
we,the ppl in straight,knew it was abuse.....the media and others saw it as revolutionary......etc........when i was in the time out room for 2 days,i knew it was bullshit,you knew it was bullshit,but the overall image was tough love crap and that was percieved as ok by the media.....like i said,if Miller had shown Nancy Reagan someone with body carvings all over themselves,instead of removing them from group,do you think the media and the such would've gave Straight such a favorable outlook and image?...no i don't think so......shit man,they snooked a lot of very smart ppl......my dad was a US Army Col.! i saw lawyers,police chiefs,{my friends dad was chief of police of falls church.......he recently told me if he had known,he would've shut the place down}>they were brainwashed way worse than us......and they were told we'd all die w/o thier "great" help........after i was huuued by straight,they{the director Jim Murray} got me a job at a mental health hospital......in my first 2 weeks there,i had to go through some kind of "training"......my last day there i saw electro shock "therapy"......because of my background in straight,they made sure i saw this.....when i was asked what i thought of it,i said "i'd rather be taken out back and shot in the head.....".....that,of course is not what the doctor in command of that place wanted to hear,and i was not employed there very long.......they were trying to brainwash me into accepting that as therapy........i didn't buy it......i got fired not long after that......i believe this is what they did to many of the ppl that were vying for spots on executive staff......i saw alot of ppl that were there to become executive staff,that never made it.......some got scratched out immediatly,some later and some bought it lock,stock and barrel.....mel was one of them.....think about it.....didn't you notice that only a few of the parents decided to put thier kids in there...most of the ppl that came in to check out straight in open meeting for thier kids didn't put them in? i did..........a cult always tricks its victims....shows them only enough to keep them there......then,when they're in too deep,they're in.......no,i'm not saying Mel was a victim like we were,what happened to us was unvoluntary.....what happened to our parents was voluntary by using thier fears as a way to get ppl in there.....what happened to Mel{who never had kids in there} was voluntary by deception.......he was told "look at our sucess rate" "if we don't know what we're doing,then explain our sucess"....he was never shown a kid being exersised to death,or sat on,or beaten up....places like straight don't show everything all at once,but a little at a time....look at our parents,thier kid came back home with newcomers>some watched thier kids treat the newcomers like shit and didn't think WTF is this? they got sucked in...Mel got sucked in.......my mom told me that after a while he wasn't buying it anymore and wanted to change it around.....the ppl higher up didn't .....he got in a fight,and i mean fist fight, with one of them and resigned/quit.........until i see him,i want to believe this because he did get in a fight and did resign.......i want to talk to him and get the truth.......for a good while,i thought like you did,until my mom told me that story of how he quit........we'll see soon........that fucking place ruined a lot of ppl....i'm not trying to change your mind,its just that when this was presented to me the way it was,i had to look at it objectivly....if our own parents were tricked>and they {for the most part} loved us,then why isn't it hard to see that this shit happened to others the same way? a cult is a cult.....trickery is thier trade and they need credible ppl to make it work...........hippie
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Offline Anonymous

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What A Long Strange Program It's Been
« Reply #109 on: August 10, 2006, 08:10:15 PM »
I completely disagree with most of what you just said, not all but most of it.  But.....I'm really tired of going round and round.  You dig Mel (almost to the point of worship, it's a little creepy) and will continue to defend his good name to no end, I think he's a fucking child abuser.  Not in the same vein as Miller but a child abuser nontheless.  Guess we'll have to leave our differences there.  

I hope you get a chance to talk to him.  Do let us know if he accepts any responsibility for what he did.
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Offline Anonymous

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What A Long Strange Program It's Been
« Reply #110 on: August 10, 2006, 10:52:29 PM »
worship him? please man,give me a break......i haven't seen him in 20 yrs......he a man,thats all......he was wrong in supporting straight......the real reason i don't have a major beef towards him except for his involvement in straight is because{and i found out about this 8 months ago from my mom} when we came up from st.pete and i had made it back up to 5th phase and been on it around 2 months,he called my mom into his office...he said "i'm going to 7 step your son this friday"...my mom told me she said "halleluia"......then she said he looked at her and said "no ,not halleluia" "i don't know why he was started over to start with....matt should've never been started over to begin with.......".....my mom held that back from me for 23 yrs.......then we talked about him......she told me how and why he was fired or resigned.......look man,something changed his attitude towards the place......when he sent me up there,he told me that he wanted to change the place around...hire ppl from AA to be staff and ppl that had been sober out of straight for quite some time......it never got off the ground.....i was screwed royaly by dean and sylvia and he got fired/resigned......i want to know the truth.....thats all....not be just mad at him for working at straight just because he did.........thats how i was before my mom told me all the things i just told you.........now i want to talk to him and find out what was happening/happened........could it be that they had him by the balls after he left? and thats why he never said anything bad about the place? i wouldn't put it past them to do it....they followed me around and destroyed every endevor i tried a hand at  after boston.......i believe he'll tell me the truth...or at least part of it......i need to know and so do all of us that had him as director.......like me,after straight,he just vanished for a good while......only in the last 5-10 yrs has he surfaced again......i know he was no saint,but i need to know the truth about him as far as straights concerned........how he feels about it now.......i hope i do.....for you and me and everyone else...if you're right,and you could very well be,i won't argue that,i'm man enough to tell you that.....ok?..hippie
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #111 on: August 10, 2006, 11:23:31 PM »
Look, my only real disagreement with you is that you say he wasn't aware of the abuses that went on and I say he was.  I'm interested in how he feels about it now but I'm also interested in why he allowed it to go on back then and why he hasn't ever spoken up about it since.  Worship wasn't the right word either, I guess it's your vehement defense of him that's puzzling to me.

Can we agree to disagree on this and be done now?  Please don't rehash your entire history again to illustrate your point.  
That's not intended to be mean, you just keep telling me the same thing over and over again.  I really do understand what you're saying and agree with a good part of it, just not all of it.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #112 on: August 10, 2006, 11:36:14 PM »
its cool man.....i want to know too.....hip
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #113 on: August 11, 2006, 05:30:43 AM »
Quote from: ""frank discuss1on""
You ever boot coke? I did a few times when I was 20 with some people I was hanging out with.. they gave it to me. After I did it, I couldn't shut up to save my life! I started reciting butthole surfers lyrics which annoyed the shit out of everyone else there.


I'm high on it right now.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #114 on: August 11, 2006, 11:13:21 AM »
Give Smel some money toward his blow buddy Charlie Crist gov campaign and I bet you will be able to talk with him. But, be aware that the cash outlay will need to be a few grrrrrrrrrrr.    

Anyway, you are a trash druggie and don't even really exist to him and his kind.   Reason will not cut it with the "man".   Don't waste your time.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #115 on: August 11, 2006, 11:23:36 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Give Smel some money toward his blow buddy Charlie Crist gov campaign and I bet you will be able to talk with him. But, be aware that the cash outlay will need to be a few grrrrrrrrrrr.    

Anyway, you are a trash druggie and don't even really exist to him and his kind.   Reason will not cut it with the "man".   Don't waste your time.


Wrong Mel.  We're talking Mel Riddile.
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Offline BROWNIE

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What A Long Strange Program It's Been
« Reply #116 on: August 11, 2006, 01:16:13 PM »
8)
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #117 on: August 11, 2006, 02:34:19 PM »
Quote from: ""S""
8)


ouch; maybe I should read the entire post beore I respond..... :D
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Offline BROWNIE

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What A Long Strange Program It's Been
« Reply #118 on: August 11, 2006, 02:57:24 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""S""
8)

ouch; maybe I should read the entire post beore I respond..... :D


ATLEAST WE R NOT N SR8 ANYMORE.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #119 on: August 17, 2006, 03:30:50 PM »
Not sure where hippie and pirate are so much in disagreement. Pirate has often said that Straight without the abuse would be a transformative experience. Right, Pirate?
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