76-77 Seed Grads

[cleveland]

Seth you definitely had the hair for it. Me too, these days!

[Ft. Lauderdale]

Hey Wally

You had the glasses for it too. (Black horned rims anyway)

I'm there in the hair dept myself.

Now if I could only sing and play the piano...

maybe next life... :grin:

[GregFL]

On 2006-05-03 04:33:00, Ft. Lauderdale wrote:

"Nope...



No one ever told me who to date.  I asked my wife to marry me no else had anything to do with it...



Sorry Greg there is alot more to it than you know.

I was never really a favorite.  In fact more times probably not the favorite."

But somehow you seem to have flown in under the radar.  Anytime you want to tell us more, we are listening.

[GregFL]

On 2006-05-03 07:47:00, Anonymous wrote:

"My God. Will you get over the bathroom list. As far as I can remember it just gave the young kids something to do and also just kept you thinking Ok I better not cop out by going to the bathroom too many times.  There were alot of kids and not alot of bathrooms. (At one time the list may have even been taken to determine if more toilets needed to be added on) That stopped when the group got smaller.  That was the only reason bathroom usage was delayed."

Cleveland wrote:

No. Sometimes I asked to go and was ignored for a while, to demonstrate power. I clearly remember this when I was a newcomer.

Oh this is definitely the case.  In fact, I remember the term "you can just sit there in your shit" to some people who were denied all but the most rudimentary bathroom privelides.  I also remember as a newcomer that when you were being a 'good' seedling, if you asked Jr. Staff to go, they would let you.  When you weren't doing as they wished, they would nod their head to and fro when you asked.  In fact, they would make you ask three or four times before they allowed it.  I remember more than one kid wetting himself and then being stood up and ridiculed.  Who knows how many went in their pants?

This practice kept morphing into a more and more serious technique in the spinoff programs.  Last heard, the seedlings at SAFE (safelings) have a day taken off their program if they ask to go to the bathroom during 'rap'.

Back to this.  I am beginning to think that many of the staffers just didn't understand what the hell they were doing.  Denial of bathroom priviledges is a severe torture/humiliation technique.  Somehow all those kids squirming to hold urine or feces in/afraid to be confronted/trying to show enthusiasm thru the fear/afraid of losing priviledges at any moment...this doesn't ring a bell as somehow 'not right' to many of the people, even these many years later.

Just so you know, denial of bathroom privelidges is considered torture and denounced by the Geneva convention, as is denial of mail, isolation, denial of sleep, and many of the other 'techniques' used at the seed.

[Seth]

What do you mean I had the hair for it?

   OMG OMG WHAT HAIR!!>?>?   yikes.


    Yea im bald as a melon.

    For a while there I experimented.   I tried growing it long with a beard for a while until someone at work told me that I should consider pushing a shopping card and collecting tin cans.
    Then I went through a phase of shaving it all totally off.
    Now I have reached a middle ground and just give myself a near/bald buzz cut at home with a paur of clippers and settle for that.
   I save a fortune in combs and brushes this way!

[cleveland]

Seth, I do the same thing...it's kind of hip to be near-bald now...beats a comb-over!

As far as bathroom priveleges go, it never reached the level for me that Greg notes...just a delay so you know who's boss.

[NOT12NOW]

Does anyone besides me see that striking difference between the female and male experience when it comes to off time and "fun"?

Absolutely, I never had a friend in the seed.  There were girls I felt more anxious around and girls I was able to relax with a bit more but "good times" always seemed like imitations of good times and I felt we were always watching each other.  I went on outings during my three nights, and acted all goofy on over nights but I was always on guard

In my experience this didn't just mean we ratted on each other but that we threatened to do so all the time.  
Example, once another seedling girl asked about some kid she saw me speaking to at school concluding with,? I just find I have to be careful."  A few minutes later I questioned her choice of clothing saying, "Don't you worry about wearing pants that are cut like jeans? (Druggyish)   She tried to squeeze away from my threat by saying,? I think there ok. Their not denim," to which, I said,? I just find I have to be careful about what I wear."  
Off time felt more like lunchtime in the group--no rap but you can still get in serious trouble if you say or do something wrong.

One sad exception, I almost had one friend.  A girl I started doing stuff with when we were both on our three nights.  I do remember some fun with her though I can't remember exactly what, just that I liked spending time with her.  Finally one of our outing requests was rejected which scared the shit out of both of us. We ratted on each other--don't remember for what and never hung out again.  

It seems to me that the women who say they remember good times were generally older when they were in the program.  It was always my experience that old seedlings seemed more relaxed.  Perhaps they were less terrorized by the esp. shit.   If you don?t believe that the people around you can read your mind and that you should be able to read theirs the threat is more limited.

Incidentally all of my closest friends after I graduated were seed grads too, but they were all guys.  It took a long while (like into adulthood) for me to learn to trust women.
 




_________________
Cleveland chick 76-77

[Anonymous]

HAHAH most men in the right mind STILL dont trust women!

[NOT12NOW]

Is that a joke?  I hope so.

[soflajb]

Dr Rick - i was the anonymous poster - not intentionally, just didnt realize i wasnt logged in - i asked because there was a grad of the program who went thorugh it in florida but was from ohio i think - he was a school psychologist and we still saw him occasionally a few yrs after the seed closed - thought you might be him so wanted to give you a shout to see if you remembered me or not.

[NOT12NOW]

That psychologist, his enthusiasm for the program
probably got more kids in there than anything else.  I remember being told they used him to make sure they were not admitting truelly mentally ill kids, never any sense that he might be evaluating kids in order to see if they needed to be in the seed at all.
I was admitted without seeing him.
Still it was the enthusiasm of experts that convinced my parents to put me in.  The junior high principal, my parents marriage counselor both recommended it.

[cleveland]

I remember I was evaluated for admission by a member of the faculty at Case - Cleveland's most prestigious school. And Jim Carney, a prominent Cleveland attorney, was a frequent visitor to the Cleveland Seed.

[jefnel]

I remember putting up those lights

[Anonymous]

Jefnel was your dad a Dr. in naples or ft myers?

[Johnny G]

Jefnel,

Did my head crack the windshield on your truck during an off road episode?

G