Even in England Boys and Girls

[Antigen]

On 2006-04-17 07:26:00, MightyAardvark wrote:

"I'll tell you guys what. You stop bashing England. I'll stop bashing America and we can all go back to playing happy families because the last time I checked we were allies."

Best idea I've heard all day. If we're going to be talking about scary stuff, we're going to have to be tough about it. Do you think I'm bashing my country when I tell you about the corrupt politicians and others who are going around spreading horrible lies about what we're all about here? Nothing could be further from the truth. The coolest thing ever about America goes all the way back to the Magna Carta on the European side of things and to the Iroquois Nation on this side of things.

The spiritual union of the nations began before European contact, replete with a Constitution recorded with special beads called wampum that served the same purpose as money in other cultures. Most Western anthropologists speculate that this Constitution was created sometime between the middle 1400s and early 1600s, but other scholars who account for Iroquois oral tradition argue that the event took place as early as 1100, with many arguing for August 31, 1142 based on a coinciding solar eclipse. Some Westerners have also suggested that this Constitution was written with European help, although most dismiss this notion as blatant racism.
http://www.crystalinks.com/iroquois.html

It is that we are Egalitarian at the root of it. Isn't England? And are our leaders and representatives from either country behaving as we would expect and hope? I don't think so.

If we're going to talk about it, we're going to have to not take it personally. See, this didn't happen to America overnight. It has been a slow and steady progression. I've had personal cause to give it much thought; I very accutely recognize the need to understand not just that this has happened, but far more importantly, how we did it. How did America fall for this? How is it that the proud nation that goes not abroad seeking monsters to destroy has been locked in an empassioned, deep, sloppy tongue kiss with the very same vile beast we set out to destroy?

Is it anti-American to speak of it? Or is it unpatriotic to ignore and neglect it.

They came with a Bible and their religion- stole our land, crushed our spirit... and now tell us we should be thankful to the 'Lord' for being saved.
--Chief Pontiac, American Indian Chieftain

[Anonymous]

Well I think the most important thing about this is that the British Government leanred of a potential problem, investigated it and is now resolving the issue. This is how we solve problems.

I hardly think that this is a an issue on anywhere near the level as abuse in the United States where these abuses are happening with the tacit (and in some cases explicit) permission of the authorities.

I've never seen badlads so I can't account for it. We're having the same problem with increasing antipathy towards young people in general but nothing like the teen concentration camps, curfews and travesties of juvenile justice you guys inflict on your youngsters.

Oh I agree it's spreading and to be frank Tony's relationship with the shrub is rather troubling.
However, I think there is more to gained by attacking the problem at it's root than by spreading alarm about the comparatively minor symptoms outside the United States.
The world follow's America's example.

And while I'm at it, here's a list of other cool things about England...
The minimum wage is set at £5.25/hour that's roughly $9 per hour. This guarantees a fair living wage to everyone.
I pay 15% tax on my £21000 job, meaning I pay less tax than an American and I get fully comprehensive medical care thrown in on the NHS.
I can tell the difference between my political parties.
My country does not have a 50% obesity rate.
My country does not have 21000 gun deaths every year.
My country does not incarcerate minors on no charge in facilities where they will be abused
My country does not impose illegal and unconstitutional curfews on minors 8 hours out of the day.
My country does not discriminate against homosexual couples who want to celebrate their union with marriage.
My local pub is older than the United States of America (opened in 1189)and I can buy a pint of Leffe there for £2.05 (around $3.50)

You came in here with a holier-than-thou attitude about the US, of course people started harpin' on you.

I'm British and it gets right up my nose when people start laying into my home. If you attack Britain then you attack me and if you attack me you can definitely expect a reaction.

Well people are proud to be American too and when some foreigner comes telling them how to do things in their country it pisses them off too. You make it seem like americans are not capable of cleaning up their own mess or nobody has been doing anything.

You have seen the show Brat Camp, right?

[MightyAardvark]

deleted

[emaree]

Well people are proud to be American too and when some foreigner comes telling them how to do things in their country it pisses them off too. You make it seem like americans are not capable of cleaning up their own mess or nobody has been doing anything.



You have seen the show Brat Camp, right? "

As an American willing to see the mistakes in our system, I appreciate input from other nations. How many Americans complain about these exact same flaws? Plenty.

Obviously, we're not capable of cleaning up our own mess. As we speak there are thousands of kids being emotionally destroyed through WWASP. I for one am grateful that someone cares enough about humanity as a whole to involve themselves in the cause, regardless of where they live.

And how bad can input from another country be if that country is far more concerned about the wellbeing of their children than we are? Obviously, it is possible to regulate these industries. Who is to say we don't need guidance from those who have experience in it?

And if you took his comments about Britain being "better" seriously, find a device to remove the stick from your ass.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-04-17 05:13:00, MightyAardvark wrote:

"And while I'm at it, here's a list of other cool things about England...

The minimum wage is set at ?.25/hour that's roughly $9 per hour. This guarantees a fair living wage to everyone.

I pay 15% tax on my ?1000 job, meaning I pay less tax than an American and I get fully comprehensive medical care thrown in on the NHS.

I can tell the difference between my political parties.

My country does not have a 50% obesity rate.

My country does not have 21000  gun deaths every year.

My country does not incarcerate minors on no charge in facilities where they will be abused

My country does not impose illegal and unconstitutional curfews on minors 8 hours out of the day.

My country does not discriminate against homosexual couples who want to celebrate their union with marriage.

My local pub is older than the United States of America (opened in 1189)and I can buy a pint of Leffe there for ?.05 (around $3.50)





"

Your country is a militaristic police state.
"WARNING-Climb Proof Paint In Action!!!"
Give me a break.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-04-18 00:04:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2006-04-17 05:13:00, MightyAardvark wrote:


"And while I'm at it, here's a list of other cool things about England...


The minimum wage is set at ?.25/hour that's roughly $9 per hour. This guarantees a fair living wage to everyone.


I pay 15% tax on my ?1000 job, meaning I pay less tax than an American and I get fully comprehensive medical care thrown in on the NHS.


I can tell the difference between my political parties.


My country does not have a 50% obesity rate.


My country does not have 21000  gun deaths every year.


My country does not incarcerate minors on no charge in facilities where they will be abused


My country does not impose illegal and unconstitutional curfews on minors 8 hours out of the day.


My country does not discriminate against homosexual couples who want to celebrate their union with marriage.


My local pub is older than the United States of America (opened in 1189)and I can buy a pint of Leffe there for ?.05 (around $3.50)








"

Your country is a militaristic police state.

"WARNING-Climb Proof Paint In Action!!!"

Give me a break."

Dont even get me started about that INNOCENT guy they murdered in the London Subway,then LIED about it.Thats just sick.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-04-17 07:28:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2006-04-17 07:26:00, MightyAardvark wrote:


"I'll tell you guys what. You stop bashing England. I'll stop bashing America and we can all go back to playing happy families because the last time I checked we were allies."

There's only one guy bashing England and no one pays attention to him anyway.  Don't sweat it."

Im not bashing England.
I like England.
Im just telling my travel experiences of England and what a bunch of uptight assholes they really are,when you visit them on their home turf.
The Germans will give you a warmer rezeption!
And I have never been to another country than England that had SO MANY retards walking around.Im talking about Monty Python style inbred fucking mental defectives walking around blathering on the street.
That shit is funny on Fawlty Towers,but when you have to ENDURE it in your tiny $60USD  bedsit(toilet down the hall)day after day,it gets old real fast.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-04-17 07:29:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2006-04-17 06:49:00, Anonymous wrote:


"

On 2006-04-17 06:48:00, Anonymous wrote:




So... how'd WWII work out for you guys?"

Oh please!  Come on, you can do better than that!  :lol:  :lol: "

English accents sound very feminine and dainty."

OH NO!Not another closet angliphile!

[Anonymous]

On 2006-04-17 11:59:00, OverLordd wrote:

"Woot!!! Trip to Enland!!! Blackpool here I come!!!! Nice!!! haha



hmm I grew up with a cajin accient, very painful thing to listen to on a regular basis, because half of it is french anyway.[ This Message was edited by: OverLordd on 2006-04-17 12:00 ]"

Blackpool is an industrial shit hole with a seedy waterfront red light district.Just head up to SW Scotland and buy a cheap two week Rover Ferry Pass and visit all the islands.You want to see some inbred retards,head towards the western most islands.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-04-17 16:18:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2006-04-17 05:13:00, MightyAardvark wrote:


"And while I'm at it, here's a list of other cool things about England...


The minimum wage is set at ?.25/hour that's roughly $9 per hour. This guarantees a fair living wage to everyone.


I pay 15% tax on my ?1000 job, meaning I pay less tax than an American and I get fully comprehensive medical care thrown in on the NHS.


I can tell the difference between my political parties.


My country does not have a 50% obesity rate.


My country does not have 21000  gun deaths every year.


My country does not incarcerate minors on no charge in facilities where they will be abused


My country does not impose illegal and unconstitutional curfews on minors 8 hours out of the day.


My country does not discriminate against homosexual couples who want to celebrate their union with marriage.


My local pub is older than the United States of America (opened in 1189)and I can buy a pint of Leffe there for ?.05 (around $3.50)








"





 Are you quite certain about the incarceration thing?



Child 'jail' restraint criticised

An unacceptable level of pain is being used to restrain children in secure custody, a report says.

The independent investigation into the treatment of children in prison, led by Lord Carlile, found pain was used to enforce compliance.

That was "unacceptable" and may be illegal, the report said.

The investigation was set up following the death of a 15-year-old boy in a privately-run secure unit while he was being restrained by three adult staff.

The inquiry, commissioned by the Howard League for Penal Reform, looked into the use of restraint techniques and strip searching.

Varying figures

It found that physical force was used against youngsters 15,512 times during a 21-month period in England and Wales, with injuries to both staff and children not uncommon.

Liberal Democrat Lord Carlile said his team of advisors "shared my shock at some of the practices we witnessed".

"We found that some of the treatment children in custody experience would in another setting be considered abusive and could trigger a child protection investigation."

   Staff have permission to deliberately hurt children Carolyne Willow Children's Rights Alliance for England

Figures varied between institutions - in which there are in total 2,800 children and young people held in England and Wales, including 200 girls.

At one secure training centre, Medway in Kent, 1,818 injuries to children as a result of restraint from January 2004 to June 2005 were reported.

At Rainsbrook near Rugby there were 118, Hassockfield in County Durham reported 177 and Oakhill in Milton Keynes listed 48 from its opening in September 2004 to August 2005.

A sample of five out of 24 local authority secure children's homes in England and Wales revealed 73 injuries to children from January 2004 to August 2005.

Young offenders institutions did not keep central records of how many children had been injured in restraint incidents.

The inquiry found some evidence that staff would "bait" children into situations that would lead to them being restrained for the adult's "own gratification".

The report accepts that many of the 10 to 17-year-olds held in young offender institutions, secure training centres and local authority secure children's homes have had chaotic and abusive childhoods and lack clear boundaries to their behaviour.

But it said that unnecessarily painful restraint techniques were used to deal with dissent in some institutions.

Handcuffs were used in the four privately-run secure training centres, something the inquiry says should stop.

And the need for a strip search should be based on evidence, something the report says would cut the number of strip searches by half.

The Youth Justice Board chairman Professor Rod Morgan said staff were encouraged to use non-physical methods to deal with difficult behaviour.

"We want to move to a situation where the staff have sufficient confidence and are sufficiently well-trained that they don't have to rely on physical restraint to the degree that in some instances they are currently doing," he said.

Mental health

However, he said there was an underlying problem about a lack of spaces for young offenders who had mental health problems - and should be in healthcare rather than custodial care.

   Although children have behaved badly and some of them committed terrible crimes... they're still children Prison Reform Trust

He called for a three-part inter-departmental review - to look at children dealt with in the criminal courts and end up in custody; those dealt with in the family courts and end up in care; and those dealt with under the mental health act and end up in psychiatric care.

Children's Rights Alliance for England national co-ordinator Carolyne Willow, a member of Lord Carlile's advisory panel, said: "We are not talking here about children being hurt in the rough and tumble of restraint.

"Staff have permission to deliberately hurt children."

"As a former child protection social worker, I am stunned that this is allowed to happen."

The inquiry was told that one in five restraints of children resulted in injury.

'They're still children'

Director of the Prison Reform Trust Juliette Lyon says children are being failed by the prison system and they invariably end up re-offending.

Cases where children needed to be restrained should be the "rarest of rare events", she told BBC News.

"When you look at the number of times that physical restraints were used in the course of less than a year - thousands of times, on some quite young children - you realise it's being used as a matter of course when it's a disciplinary issue.

"Although children have behaved badly and some of them committed terrible crimes, although that is a minority, they're still children," she added.

Lord Carlile's report concludes that police should be ready to prosecute in cases where children appear to have been assaulted.

The inquiry was launched after the death of Gareth Myatt, 15, from Stoke-on-Trent, in April 2004.

He died after being restrained by three members of staff four days into his sentence at privately-run Rainsbrook secure training centre, near Rugby.

Story from BBC NEWS:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/uk/4722652.stm



Published: 2006/02/17 08:53:46 GMT



?BBC MMVI





 

'Child jails' put under spotlight

      By Jon Silverman Legal affairs analyst





For the second time in three months, a teenage boy has died in a secure training centre and many legitimate questions are being asked about the standard of care and discipline in what critics call "child jails".

England's three secure training centres (STCs) hold 188 children, some as young as 12.

They are there because their behaviour is so wayward and challenging.

They are also there because they are highly vulnerable and the chief issue is whether staff are being adequately trained to deal with such vulnerability.

Fifteen-year-old Gareth Myatt, who died at Rainsbrook in Northamptonshire in April, was being physically restrained when he lost consciousness and the ongoing inquiry is focusing on the manner of that restraint.

Deborah Coles of the pressure group Inquest said there was evidence that restraint had also played a role in the death of 14-year-old Adam Rickwood, at Hassockfield in County Durham.

"We are very concerned about the over-use of restraint in the STCs," she added.

"And we need to know how much priority in staff training is given to suicide prevention and how much to working with such vulnerable children."

Despite the plethora of inquiries into this latest death - the Youth Justice Board, Premier Prisons, which runs Hassockfield, the Commission for Social Care Inspection and the Prisons Ombudsman are all involved - the Home Office is now under considerable pressure to mark the gravity of the problem by setting up a public inquiry.

If Parliament was sitting, the home secretary could expect to be lobbied by MPs, 30 of whom signed a motion in July calling for an inquiry into the death of 16-year-old Joseph Scholes at a young offenders institution in 1992.

There has never been a public inquiry into the death of a juvenile in custody and there are no signs that David Blunkett is about to announce one.

Court battle

Nor is the government impressed by criticism that the care of such vulnerable youngsters should not be in the hands of private contractors.

It is pointed out that staff-inmate ratios are relatively high and that private custody has tended to drive up standards in the public sector.

But ministers have already lost a court battle over their failure to apply the Children Act to the care of children in custody.

The lessons learned from the deaths of Adam Rickwood and Gareth Myatt may have an even more profound impact on the way these youngsters are treated.

Story from BBC NEWS:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/e ... 556922.stm



Published: 2004/08/11 19:53:16 GMT



?BBC MMVI





 

Remand teenager is found hanged

A 14-year-old has died after he was found hanged at a secure training centre in County Durham.

Staff at the privately-run Hassockfield Centre in Medomsley, near Consett, discovered the body of Adam Rickwood in the early hours of Monday.

Attempts were made to revive him, but he was pronounced dead in hospital.

Durham Police are not treating the death as suspicious. The teenager, from Burnley, Lancashire, was on remand facing a charge of wounding.

'Shocked and saddened'

His mother has been informed of the death and was travelling to north-east England.

The private centre is run by Premier Training Services Ltd, part of Premier Custodial Group, based in Berkshire, on behalf of the Youth Justice Board.

Premier spokesman, Dave Hill, said staff at the centre were "saddened and shocked" by the death.

He said: "We have offered our condolences to the family and believe three investigations are under way.

"We are investigating the circumstances, as are the police and Youth Justice Board.

"We are all very sad and shocked by what has happened."

'Tragic death'

The youngster was one of 43 young people, aged between 14 and 17, living at the centre on remand or carrying out community service orders.

Ellie Roy, chief executive of the Youth Justice Board, said: "Adam had been on remand in Hassockfield STC for one month.

"In accordance with our serious incidents procedure an investigation will be launched immediately by the Board in co-operation with the Prison and Probation Ombudsman and the Commission for Social Care Inspection."

Mr Roy added: "I would like to offer my sincere sympathy to Adam's family. We will do everything we can to help ensure that the circumstances of his tragic death are made known and that any lessons that need to be learnt will be."

Story from BBC NEWS:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/e ... 549094.stm



Published: 2004/08/09 16:01:20 GMT



?BBC MMVI

"

Consett,lovely place.Benn there many times.
Lots of misguided youths there though,but not to worry,CCTV Cameras are going up at a staggering rate in this quaint village on the road between Newcastle and Co Durham.Its Mr Bean's (Rowan Adkinson) home town,but I hear he's a real wanker in person.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-04-17 17:41:00, MightyAardvark wrote:

"Here's the thing.

I truly deepy and passionately love America. I really do. However I'm not American. I'm British and it gets right up my nose when people start laying into my home. If you attack Britain then you attack me and if you attack me you can definitely expect a reaction.

[ This Message was edited by: MightyAardvark on 2006-04-17 17:47 ]"

Just look at what happened to those treacherous Iraqis who attacked England's green and pleasent land.
Who's laughing now,Bin Laden...er..or was it Saddam?
Just give em' a short sharp shot,you dig it?

[Anonymous]

On 2006-04-16 00:14:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2006-04-15 22:22:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:


"The food tastes like shit. Go to a good indo take away or get some good paki curry.

Everything that people say to you is personal. Whether it is constructive criticism or not will determine whether it cam from and asshole or not.


----Bill Warbis

"

I second that motion.

You can,however,go to a supermarket and find pre made international foods that are quite good,and I usually steer towards the Indian/Paki stuff.

Dont be fooled by what Englanders call "sausage",its in fact just bread soaked in pork fat and stuffed in to a sausage casing.

There are shops that sell sandwiches and "pasties",cheap small meat pies.

And dont be fooled by "English Breakfast",because usually it is a VERY HARD bread roll with butter,served with a dish of jelly that has been in the fridge so long it has formed a 1/4 inch thick skin.

If you want a proper English Breakfast then you had better state that point clearly and be ready to hand over a lot of money for it.

I survive on the cheapest food in England,Spighettios and 9p Beans at Budgins Best Supermarket.

Warning!The Low Fat Milk has a red cap,and the Full Milk has a blue cap,and "Double Cream" is much to thick to put in your coffee,you should buy "Single Cream" for coffee.

Englanders soap up their dishes,but never rinse ANY of the soap off before drying,so you had better rinse them your self or you will have a case of the shits like you wont believe.

Englanders dont like showers,so all the bath tubs have only hot/cold spigots,but they are a foot apart,so you cant blend warm water,so it is impossible to rinse the soap out of your hair with warm water.

Go to Germany if you want to be treated warmly,Brits are so uptight and constipated all the time,and Im talking about my friends."

Yup.
Sounds like harmless travel tips to me. :wstupid:

[Antigen]

Can you even imagine how the rest of the world might view this argument? Shit, if they could have it, they'd instigate war between the US and Brittain, then they'd only have the Chinese government and the Islamic fanatics to deal with.

 :roll:

We have the same problems of the same origins and, most troubling of all to me, thriving and spreading thanks to our common bigotry and blind spots.

I refuse to engage in a conversation about who sucks more. We have a serious fucking problem here, folks! We must address it, no matter how embarrasing it may be to discuss it at times.

My country has fallen, hook-line-and sinker, for what amounts to a sadistic cult. Brittain is following close on our heels, though I must admit you guys have a much more interesting, intelligent and functional congress than we do (yeah, yeah, I know, "House of Commons" but the name rankles... commoner! FU! LOL)

But that's slipping fast, Ardvark! The ppl around you are getting more like those around Blitzburgh (a drinking town w/ a football problem) All of that rich sardony and adept mastry of political language and history is lost on many of your neighbors just as it would be lost on most Americans.

How about we quit being so damned thin skinned and, instead, see if we can come up w/ some nifty ideas for heading off our common impending disaster?

But if you really were all about America bashing all along, go in peace but watch your back. You misunderesimate us. :razz:

The most important bill in our whole code is that for the diffusion of
knowledge among the people. No other sure foundation can be devised, for the preservation of freedom and happiness.

--Thomas Jefferson

[MightyAardvark]

deleted

[Anonymous]

I agree. So where in America were you thinking of moving to?