Author Topic: Second Nature Wilderness Program  (Read 60282 times)

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Offline psy

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Second Nature Wilderness Program
« Reply #330 on: January 05, 2008, 09:55:06 PM »
Quote from: ""TheWho""
So it seems we may be at an impasse.  Clinical studies are not automatically performed in all areas.  They are great to have but the lack of them doesn’t dictate a conclusion either way.  To say a program is ineffective because of a lack of studies ludicrous.

But to advertise a program as effective when it has not been proven to be is fraudulent.  So, you say: well, that would mean all new organizations of any kind are fraudulent.  No.  Legitimate treatment of mental problems normally requires licenses to practice.  Licenses, both give the practitioners something major to lose if they screw up, and ensure that they have the education not to, for example, dismiss threats of suicide as "manipulation".

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If the parents and kids that pass through the programs find them to be effective then they are!

So what you're essentially saying is "trust the marketing"...  Unless you're suggesting we listen to the experiences of a single parent OR interview a large sample of people who have been in (not just graduated from) the program.  Oh... but that would be somewhat of study, now wouldn't it.

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The parents and kids that find them to be ineffective are also correct (wilderness doesn’t work for everyone).

Do you really expect an educational consultant to say something like that?  Do you expect a program to refuse a student... ever?  Ever tried applying a fake kid to a program for absurd reasons just to see the response?  I'd do it if I had the phone voice.  Besides...  Many programs even require wilderness before going into the main program and use them as threats to gain compliance.

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As far as abuse goes, we haven’t seen any evidence.  Lain gave us a story about a person who had to walk back down the trail and place a sausage into the food bag, which didn’t seem to be anything to call the police on.

Regardless of what you deem "abuse", these programs rely on creating enough "discomfort" to gain compliance.  Many advertise to "break em down" to "build em up".  It's a euphemism for attack on the core identity.  The military doesn't do this at all in the literal sense that program do, and even if they did, it's voluntary, people don't need to have their wills broken (since they want to be there) and people know what their getting into.  There is informed consent.  There isn't in a program.

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So to recap:  The effectiveness of Second Nature wilderness varies based on the individual from extremely effective to not effective at all, with no evidence of abuse (or negative effects).


Well.  Consider, also, that an effective program of thought reform wouldn't have many people claiming abuse or mistreatment.  There are almost too many reasons to count.  Here's one:

- Usually, if they fuck up after program, they blame it on themselves.  Since whatever they experienced is the only concept of "therapy" they have ever experienced, since they were told it was therapy (regardless of whether it was or not), they're unlikely to view what they experienced as abuse if it was.  If you want to find out about abuse in a program, ask the kids how they were helped, in explicit detail.  Ask them how they found their real selves.  Ask them how resistant they were at the beginning of program, and how hard the staff had to push them to "follow the program".  Ask them about consequences, etc.

What programs do, in my experience, with just about anybody i've ever talked to who was in a program, is instill a new belief system where the student is to blame for anything that ever happened to them, or will happen to them.  When they predictibly "relapse" because they believe they are powerless, need program, and have no self confidence at all, they believe it's because they "didn't follow their program".  Some even ask to go back... Some become afraid to leave.  Program sure as hell doesn't mind.  They like completely debilitated students (as long as their parents still have money).  There's no warranty here and by coaching the parents and shoving them through brainwashing (yes brainwashing) seminars, they can become convinced that the program is the only possible salvation for their child.  Some programs use this to their advantage, offering free tuition for referrals, turning the parents into deployable agents of the cult (free marketing / evangelism).

No, parents aren't always stupid... They're often uneducated.  If I had been in my parent's shoes, I probably wouldnt' have believed my complaints when I was in program.  That doesn't necessarily make it right at all, they should have investigated...  but programs prepare for that as well and staff are often trained in how to deal with doubting parents.  Parents are often scolded when they question the program, told that to trust the professionals and that they don't know what their talking about.  They're told that their kid is progressing, just needs more time in program (could you possibly afford a few more months.  he really needs it).  They use fear too, often claiming "this is his last chance at a life.  if he leaves now, he'll die / whatever is needed to scare the parents...)  They told this to my parents.  They make a living off doing this shit, you don't think they're good at it.  These people know how to create emotional responses (especially fear) in order to get what they want.

you can go bla bla bla "you don't know it's a bad program" and I respond that I don't have to know.  The industry is unregulated, and there are enough programs confirmed to be bad out there to know that taking a chance at all is a real bad idea, even when "all" other options have been exhausted.  If I was an evil bastard and I wanted to make a lot of money, if I was a sociopath like Sue Scheff says I am, I would probably start a program and do exactly what i've just talked above with very, very little fear of repercussions.

What's the statute of limitations on intentional / negligent infliction of emotional distress...  Does a debilitated program dropout who has no parental support and struggling to survive think about where to get food next, or how to get a 600$ retainer (not even mentioning the legal fees) for a lawer who, in all probability, will never take the case.  That's even assuming they were resistant enough to not accept the program (or snap out of the thought reform early).  That's assuming their parents even believe them... and in most case programs know that parents will never believe a kid complaining about most of the things they do.  That's assuming the parents even talk to the kids.  Often, programs convince the parents not to talk to them unless it's through the program (even after program).  They tell them that the kids will say anything to get back in the house and start manipulating / using them again.  They tell the parents that they need a mediator to spot lies/manipulations.  Considering the parents are on the program's side, who do you think they would testify for.  Considering the trumped up confessions required to be written in program, you don't think the program would submit that as evidence.  You think a cheap-as lawyer (compared to a program's unlimited funding) could really explain the psychology of thought reform to an average American Jury?  I know of one who could, and he ain't cheap.

I know all too well how it's possible to run an abusive school that systematically destroys, debilitates, robs, and abandons students without getting caught.

Answer this question:  IF a kid is abused in program, and the conditions I am speaking of exist, HOW could he or she do anything about it at all?  And that's even assuming the unlikely possibility that they understand even a fraction of what happened to them.  Go read one of the books advertised here, (start with cults in our midst, perhaps), and maybe, if you're actually a human being, you'll begin to understand the immense harm you are doing here by trying to convince parents that any program is a good one.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline Ursus

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Second Nature Wilderness Program
« Reply #331 on: January 05, 2008, 10:46:05 PM »
Thank you, psy, for that kick-ass post!   :nworthy:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Anonymous

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yeah
« Reply #332 on: January 05, 2008, 11:08:55 PM »
yup agree.

Thank you PSY for formulating the message and eloquently writing what many of us feel. There are many pieces of this puzzle: families, the parents, but most importantly, the child who needs a voice.

(a parent who wised up to TBS scams)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Second Nature Wilderness Program
« Reply #333 on: January 06, 2008, 12:45:16 AM »
Well said, Psy!

If I may, I'd like to address an issue that I believe is of primary concern but not often acknowledged.

Many of the people who run these programs and SELL THEM meet the definition of a malignant narcissist.

These types of disordered personalities are drawn to the TEEN HURT industry like a moth to the flame.

Abusing children is second nature to them.  The power they hold over these vulnerable, completely defenseless children is intoxicating.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Ursus

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Second Nature Wilderness Program
« Reply #334 on: January 06, 2008, 01:27:01 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Abusing children is to them.


 :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline psy

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Re: yeah
« Reply #335 on: January 06, 2008, 02:51:21 AM »
Quote from: ""a Mom""
yup agree.

Thank you PSY for formulating the message and eloquently writing what many of us feel. There are many pieces of this puzzle: families, the parents, but most importantly, the child who needs a voice.

(a parent who wised up to TBS scams)


Thanks...  But there's so much left out.  It's just the tip of the iceberg.  What's hard, what's very hard, is convincing anybody that really needs the information to actually sit down and listen to it for long enough to figure it out.  By the time they figure it out on their own (if they figure it out on their own), it's usually too late.  So let me explain a little about what happened to me; why, exactly things probably would not have gone so well. Parents.. listen up:

The reasons I am here, right now, aren't due to who I am, per se.  I am not "responsible" for everything that was done to me, that happened to me, and I am not in total control of my destiny.  If my parents would not have helped me, in all likelyhood, i would have ended up in the same situation as so many of my friends.  I would have had to live on the streets and do anything I needed to in order to survive.  At the point I was at, believing what I did, I probably would have actually become an "addict/alcoholic" as they had convinced me I was (which was absurd, given my reasons for going there).

Funny thing was that I wasn't "forced" to believe anything the way I perceived it at the time.  That's not possible.  It's trickery.  I was simply immersed in a culture that believed a certain way and I adopted those beliefs based on the (false) information i was "taught" while I was there.  They presented to me a list of things that an alcoholic was, and I looked at that list and I said "wow... that's me"... and they told me that they were all like me at one point, and that they could have turned things around if they had "caught it early" like I did.  It was only much later that I figured out that everybody in existance would have filled the criteria they gave for an alcholic.  Normal people (not in the cult) would have recognized that, but until I had learned to identify myself totally as an "alcoholic / addict" i had no contact with the outside world.  When we did, they were at selected AA meetings they bussed us to (we were not allowed to share, though...  we were told this was to respect others.  I now realize it's because they might have laughed us out of the room).  But most in the "real world" would have said "uh...  aha... ok... well.. i'm glad you're sober now.  congratulations" and probably walk away feeling a bit awkward at how proud you were identifying yourself as a junkie.  Nobody... nobody... questions whether it's true, or will ask you what you learned in rehab...

Of course, once you completely identify yourself with an addict, you wear it like a badge on your shoulder.  It was almost a badge of pride at benchmark.  It had an exclusivity to it.  Once you took the "first step" to "recovery", it felt great...  I was grateful to them... I cried and broke down, and "realized" that they were saving me from what they portrayed as an inevitable path of destruction.  I bonded with them, saw them as family.  "an alcholic knows an alcoholic" I was told.  At first, I "resisted" and portrayed things as they were.  I wrote my "life story" as they instructed me to do, as well as my "dirt list" only to be told that they were not "truthful".  It was one of the first "assignments" they had me write.  I had no reason to lie.  I thought they were there to help me.  I was told that I was not there at Benchmark for the reasons I claimed (which were the exact reasons that were written on the referral sheet, btw), and that I was simply in denial (Don't even know i am lying).  I was told that everybody denied the truth when the first got to Benchmark and I needed to take that "first step".

It's a powerful thing, sitting in a room of people claiming that they know you're one of them, that they were all like me, and that they didn't know they were lying to themselves.  I believed I was sick, that I was afraid of feelign, that I could not feel, that I didn't even know who I was because I was afraid of my true self, letting my true self out...  I was told that we _all_ are wearing masks and need to take those masks off, discover the "inner me".  I and me, for cedu people.

But how did they know that, I thought at first.  How could they possibly know that I wasn't myself?  I asked that question... I _knew_ they could not know, but in time, the repetition, the pressure, the "evidence" they gave (that applied to everybody on the planet) convinced me of their "truth".  I was told that one example was that I was too intellectual, I argued, I was resistant, I was "in my head"... it was all evidence that i was an alcholic/addict.  They told me that I needed to stop thinking so much, in thier own language, that I needed to feel.

What they really wanted me to do was to stop thinking, and let emotions overwhelm me.  They wanted a conversion experience, with the program as the god.  

I was told that the 12 steps could be used to treat any illness or disability, that I could just replace the word "alcohol" with my issue and overcome it with the help of a higher power (benchmark)...  Multiple educational psychologists had diagnosed me with dysgraphia, a writing disability.  They all basically said that i'm intelligent but since my handwriting was slow and illegible (not my fault, it's my noodle) I was supposed (not just allowed) to used a computer to type my schoolwork.  Benchmark told me that I could overcome it...  I initially argued that while I could write, it was far slower than other people and it would be holding me back.  Well...  It didn't matter.  Although they had promised that I would be able to use the computer (they should have, by law, since they claimed to be a school), after the 30 days they told me were to inspect my computer for contraband (they never touched it) I was told that i had lost my privelage.  this decision was apparantly made at the staff meeting.  I was told I didn't need it, that I could overcome...

I was furious.  I knew they were violating the law, and they tested the waters with my parents about this.  Although my parents would normally have probably raised a fit, they made it sound like they knew what they were doing and they claimed they could help me to overcome my writing disability.  in reality, none of the staff knew what in the fuck was disgraphia, and I doubt any of them cared.

As far as they were concerned, I was whining and felt "entitled".  You're fucking right I was entitled, and they were breaking the law.  At that point I had what they would refer to as a "blow up"....  as in I totally let them have it, verbally, explained how my parents would sue them into the next century, how they were violating my rights, etc.  They told me that had no rights, that I had signed them away when I came to program.  I told them they lied to me.  They told me the rules on computers had changed recently (but admissions director Richard Brimhall was still pushing the same "you can have your computer after 30 days" bullshit 6 months later. I made it a point of asking new arrivals about it.)

I demanded (and i mean demanded) my property they had confiscated back.  I wanted my palmtop so I could get a calling card number out of it to call my parents and tell them what was going on (i didn't tell them why I wanted it bakc).  I hadn't talked to my parents since my dad dropped me off (no phone calls for 30 days, no refunds after 5) and I wanted to explain to them what was going on.  The reason they did this, I later figured out when reading the correspondance with my parents, is so they could push their bullshit on them, tell them about all the fictional things I did.  I was an angel.  They told me that if I was good that I could have my computer back.  The place was stressful and i've always found computers relaxing.  That's all I wanted... just what they agreed to.

So what happened?  They refused to give me my property back.  They told me that the property was not mine... it was my parents (even though my parents always made me pay for my own stuff)  Techincally, anything else was gifted property.  I almost couldn't believe it...  I told them that they were keeping my property and that it was theft.  I told them I would call the cops.  They told me that first of all it wouldn't matter since the property was "my parents" and secondly that i would never be allowed back in program if I did (and they do hold good on that threat).  I was left in a position where I could try to see if the cops would help (and even if they did, I didn't have a place to take my stuff, I didn't know if my palmtop would need a charge to get the calling card number off, and I didn't know if my parents would help even if I could contact them (nope... they would not have, thanks to what the program had been telling them for that month without contact).

That being said, I was sure my mother would at least help.  If I couldn't leave the program, I truly believed that if I could talk to her she would set the program straight, tell them to give me my computer, and everything would be fine.  So I told the parent rep (Carl Janowitz) I was chiefly arguing with/yellign at that I was going to walk off and make a phone call (i figured i could call collect).  He told me that i would not be let back in until authorized again.  I told him "we'll see after I talk to my parents about this.  my mother has taken on a school before on this issue, and you will comply with the law".  So I walked out, went to the nearest payphone, and tried to make a collect call...  an international collect call to Ireland where my parents were living at the time.  Well...  as anybody who has ever tried it before can tell you, it's not possible (or at least not at the time).  I called 1-800-collect and asked an operator, I tried looking through the phone book....  Eventually, I gave up.  It was getting late, I was hungry, and I knew the area wasn't the greatest at night (Aaron can attest to this).  I went back to program.  They were loading up the vans to go back to the apartments.  I begged.  They realized i was desperate and so I was allowed to ride back.  I was then put on House and Room restiction.

Before that point I was following the rules, I was doing my "level requirments".  I have documentation of this (staff signatures) checking off my almost flawless behavior on the level requirements sheet.  I had no problem complying with the program as long as they did what they promised they would do.  I made up my mind to follow their orders until i got my first phone call, at which point I would tell my parents what was going on and surely, they would help me out.

I expected my parents to care, I expected them to resist, I expected them to help me out.  What happened shocked me. They told me that I "need to follow the program, do what they say, etc..."  And with that... my only advocates took the program's side, without even hearing me out...

I seriously doubt most staff realized what they were doing.  To them, they were spreading the gospel, helping people find themselves, the ultimate truth, etc...  It's what they were taught, and they believed it.  Notes that my counselors wrote (that i had to eventually threaten the program with legal action to get) reveal that they didn't seem to be deliberately deceiving anybody.  They believed it.

Jayne, and many of the executive staff, on the other hand, i'm pretty sure were just after the money.  Why?  many reasons:  They were always asking my parents for more money (he could use more time in program.. he's making progress bla bla bla, will the State department pay for more time bla bla bla...  Also, they lied (why would they if they believed it).  They either made stuff up completely out of whole cloth, made tiny offenses into crimes against humanity, and invented new rules, just for me (it's an "individualized program", LOL) when I wasn't breaking enough.

I should have figured after they confiscated my palmtop after a week or so without a reason that something was wrong(iPaq 3600 series with Tarsus fold-out full-size keyboard, they told me I could type my work on until i got my desktop back (LIE))...  Know what they told my parents they took it away for?  They tole them I was using it to cast spells.  Yes, I have this in writing, and when I release the Benchmark documetary, you'll see a lot of this.

But I bit my tongue... they told me at the end of 30 days I could have it back, so I didn't mind.  It was this "you can get it back later" crap they would use all the time... or "you'll get your level two in no time if you follow the rules, etc."  Well...   I did what they asked, I followed everything and i have my level requirements checklist that has every single thing checked off with excellent done...  I finished Building Trades in record time too (vocational education where you build furnature they sell).  Oh.  but there was one thing that was not checked off.... Item number 17:  "enough Time spent in program" which required some very subjective standards to be met such as me to make a "lasting change"...

Well.  I told them that I was there to finish high school (what I was told), and that there was nothing about myself I felt I wanted to change at the time.  My counselor agreed, initially, that i could write down "cut down on smoking" as a "personal growth" goal... Later, I was told that was not sufficient...  Everything would change as soon as I was close to it.  There was a carrot on a stick and they were leading me around.  They had universal catch 22s for everything.  I knew they were jerking me around, but I didn't know what for.  I didn't understand why they were doing what they were doing.  Unless you've been in a situation like that you really can't know how stressful it can be...

Everybody was constantly reporting on everybody, looking for things, writing down "dirt lists" on anything from somebody "breaking bans" to rumors they had heard of an un-approved love-relationship going on...  They had to approve who you were attracted to...  They had to check off (on a piece of paper, that I have) whether you were "sexually enlightened", or "ready to date". You had to write a proposal if you wanted to have sex and counselors had to deem you ready.  You had to earn your own money, rent out a hotel room, and write this whole plan down in a "proposal" for staff meeting.  So much for spontaneity.  I was told that Benchmark was very "progressive"... that no other program allowed students to have sex at all... I told them that I wasn't told this was a program.. I was told it was a school.  I felt like i was wrongfully imprisoned without even a trial.  My parents didn't even know what it was like.  They thought it was a school  I thought it was a school, even after the tour.  I couldnt' figure out why they had that 30 day no talking to parents rule but... boy did I figure that out quick.

Yeah, i became hostile, yes, I was vindictive, yes, i hurt people, yes I reported on people, yes, I played the game... we all did.  Yes, i was very, very wrong (even though the staff told us that reporting on others was "helping" them follow the program).  Writing this now... since i've avoided writing about this in depth for so long, makes me...  somewhere between sick to my stomach and angry enough to ........  Helpless.  Not any fucking more.  I am going to expose the truth about Benchmark and that school will be shut down.  It will happen.

What they did is NOT therapy.  What I'm describing i've heard in one form or another from pretty much every single program vet i've talked to.  I learned that programs generally operate pretty much alike.  All of the control communcation, all control the enviornment, all demand disclosures, all critique those as "truthful".  I learned to doubt myself in program.  I was confident before program.  I could assert myself, not what they told me to be, not what they made me, not the "real me" that I could only find by following their program.  Parent's don't realize how fucking traumatic it is, how permanant that is, how i can no longer be around groups of people and function in a normal capacity, how my stress levels go through the roof when around new people, how I am no longer able to ask a person out on a date, or even for coffee... how i can no longer tell somebody i'm in love because i'm terrified...  I learned to be silent, be passive, to avoid conflict at any cost by satisfying requests.

I was not like this before program.  It's only been since i've been thinking about these things that i've regained some of what i lost, myself.  "get over it" and "move on with your life" are NOT what is a good idea.  After leaving a program or a cult you need to examine what went on.  It's better to do it sooner rather than later, once you've learned to live with the damage.  Nope.  Normal therapists won't help.  Most don't realize how they work or what they do.  Go to one who specializes in cults, or find a friend who was in one and recognizes what's going on.

It's not therapy, it's flat out cruelty, and it's done out of greed, and sadly many parents are naive enough to belive some con artists... despite the fact that their advice might be against their better judgement they turn all decisions over to the cult representative, controlling them with fear.  Parents should be helping us to rip these places apart and hold the leaders accountable for thier crimes, offering their followers the therapy they need, but only if they want it because that's how therapy works.  It's VOLUNTARY.  It's not deceptive.  They don't have secret LGAT seminars where you're not told what to expect, where you're told to let go of your values, where your mind is played with through tricks.  THERAPY is NOT DECEPTIVE, and NOT SECRETIVE.  "Don't tell because it would ruin it for others"...  or the techniques wouldnt' work, since people would know what to expect, might ask questions, might not be surprised at the results of the games...  who knows... maybe one or two might figure out it's nothing but a repackaging of est, Lifespring, or whatever else "works" to gain the results they want: compliant, obedient, pliable, trusting, loyal, parents who bond, through a process of induced pain then comfort, with a "facilitator" whose sole interest is in making sure they can milk every last dollar until the parents end up desperate, praying to their fucking false god to save their child.

Most stuff about programs I recognized on my own, and by talking with others who were in program, but one thing I didn't realize until reading "Cults in Our Midst" is that cults truly are structured like an inverted T.  The leader is on top, and everybody else is on the bottom.  I did things in program I regret, so did staff.  I went to program under false pretenses, and so did they.  They went through the seminars too, they had no pre-existing concept of what therapy was (they deliberately hire unqualified staff with little education).  At least at the program I was at, I no longer blame most of the staff.  A few, i believe were just cruel and got off on the power, some, i'm sure weren't that way to start with but beacame taht way over time.  For the most part, however, believe most truly believed, and only truly wanted to help people.

The top, on the other hand... Jayne Longnecker, Richard brimhall, and others who deliberatly decieved parents, who could not have possibly have been ignorant to what they were doing, that they were participating in a systematic ruining of peopel's lives for profit...  They should be thrown in jail for life, preferably with some extra friendly, and extremely well endowed cellmates.  In my opinion, what they did was murder.  They advertised "therapist" and "psychologists", deliberatly lying in order to increase enrollment.  They accept more than capacity, storing the most "negative" students in motels...

Oh but The level 2s can get jobs right.... sure they can ... only jobs that give out paychecks, so they can sign them over to program...  And no, they can't keep the cash if they decide to leave.  They covered every angle and it all functions to bring cashflow in, and send it to the top.  a system like that does not form by accident and I hope Jayne someday feels something.. half of any of the pain she has caused any one student...  Even the successes, even the staff, realize what goes on in time.  How many stay more than a year or so?  WHY do they all stay silent.  I want to know that. Are they all that stupid?  do they choose not to see it because it's inconvenient to them?  Voluntary suspension of disbelief?  I need to stop.  I'm typing far too hard on this laptop keyboard.

I hope this explains a little, parents, and to you, Whooter... I dont' expect you to believe me, or to care if you do, but in time all of you will figure it out and don't say I didn't warn you.  You should hope your kids have a fraction of the mercy I have for mine.

PS:  I know the grammar is atrocious...  I'll correct it later..  I was writing it in a stream of consciousness mode.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline Che Gookin

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« Reply #336 on: January 06, 2008, 04:01:21 AM »
Do you have a reader's digest version?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Che Gookin

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« Reply #337 on: January 06, 2008, 04:10:24 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Unless you're Randall Hinton.


Wanna bet what is in Randall at the moment?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: yeah
« Reply #338 on: January 06, 2008, 08:57:28 AM »
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: ""a Mom""
yup agree.

Thank you PSY for formulating the message and eloquently writing what many of us feel. There are many pieces of this puzzle: families, the parents, but most importantly, the child who needs a voice.

(a parent who wised up to TBS scams)


Thanks...  But there's so much left out.  It's just the tip of the iceberg.  What's hard, what's very hard, is convincing anybody that really needs the information to actually sit down and listen to it for long enough to figure it out.  By the time they figure it out on their own (if they figure it out on their own), it's usually too late.  So let me explain a little about what happened to me; why, exactly things probably would not have gone so well. Parents.. listen up:

The reasons I am here, right now, aren't due to who I am, per se.  I am not "responsible" for everything that was done to me, that happened to me, and I am not in total control of my destiny.  If my parents would not have helped me, in all likelyhood, i would have ended up in the same situation as so many of my friends.  I would have had to live on the streets and do anything I needed to in order to survive.  At the point I was at, believing what I did, I probably would have actually become an "addict/alcoholic" as they had convinced me I was (which was absurd, given my reasons for going there).

Funny thing was that I wasn't "forced" to believe anything the way I perceived it at the time.  That's not possible.  It's trickery.  I was simply immersed in a culture that believed a certain way and I adopted those beliefs based on the (false) information i was "taught" while I was there.  They presented to me a list of things that an alcoholic was, and I looked at that list and I said "wow... that's me"... and they told me that they were all like me at one point, and that they could have turned things around if they had "caught it early" like I did.  It was only much later that I figured out that everybody in existance would have filled the criteria they gave for an alcholic.  Normal people (not in the cult) would have recognized that, but until I had learned to identify myself totally as an "alcoholic / addict" i had no contact with the outside world.  When we did, they were at selected AA meetings they bussed us to (we were not allowed to share, though...  we were told this was to respect others.  I now realize it's because they might have laughed us out of the room).  But most in the "real world" would have said "uh...  aha... ok... well.. i'm glad you're sober now.  congratulations" and probably walk away feeling a bit awkward at how proud you were identifying yourself as a junkie.  Nobody... nobody... questions whether it's true, or will ask you what you learned in rehab...

Of course, once you completely identify yourself with an addict, you wear it like a badge on your shoulder.  It was almost a badge of pride at benchmark.  It had an exclusivity to it.  Once you took the "first step" to "recovery", it felt great...  I was grateful to them... I cried and broke down, and "realized" that they were saving me from what they portrayed as an inevitable path of destruction.  I bonded with them, saw them as family.  "an alcholic knows an alcoholic" I was told.  At first, I "resisted" and portrayed things as they were.  I wrote my "life story" as they instructed me to do, as well as my "dirt list" only to be told that they were not "truthful".  It was one of the first "assignments" they had me write.  I had no reason to lie.  I thought they were there to help me.  I was told that I was not there at Benchmark for the reasons I claimed (which were the exact reasons that were written on the referral sheet, btw), and that I was simply in denial (Don't even know i am lying).  I was told that everybody denied the truth when the first got to Benchmark and I needed to take that "first step".

It's a powerful thing, sitting in a room of people claiming that they know you're one of them, that they were all like me, and that they didn't know they were lying to themselves.  I believed I was sick, that I was afraid of feelign, that I could not feel, that I didn't even know who I was because I was afraid of my true self, letting my true self out...  I was told that we _all_ are wearing masks and need to take those masks off, discover the "inner me".  I and me, for cedu people.

But how did they know that, I thought at first.  How could they possibly know that I wasn't myself?  I asked that question... I _knew_ they could not know, but in time, the repetition, the pressure, the "evidence" they gave (that applied to everybody on the planet) convinced me of their "truth".  I was told that one example was that I was too intellectual, I argued, I was resistant, I was "in my head"... it was all evidence that i was an alcholic/addict.  They told me that I needed to stop thinking so much, in thier own language, that I needed to feel.

What they really wanted me to do was to stop thinking, and let emotions overwhelm me.  They wanted a conversion experience, with the program as the god.  

I was told that the 12 steps could be used to treat any illness or disability, that I could just replace the word "alcohol" with my issue and overcome it with the help of a higher power (benchmark)...  Multiple educational psychologists had diagnosed me with dysgraphia, a writing disability.  They all basically said that i'm intelligent but since my handwriting was slow and illegible (not my fault, it's my noodle) I was supposed (not just allowed) to used a computer to type my schoolwork.  Benchmark told me that I could overcome it...  I initially argued that while I could write, it was far slower than other people and it would be holding me back.  Well...  It didn't matter.  Although they had promised that I would be able to use the computer (they should have, by law, since they claimed to be a school), after the 30 days they told me were to inspect my computer for contraband (they never touched it) I was told that i had lost my privelage.  this decision was apparantly made at the staff meeting.  I was told I didn't need it, that I could overcome...

I was furious.  I knew they were violating the law, and they tested the waters with my parents about this.  Although my parents would normally have probably raised a fit, they made it sound like they knew what they were doing and they claimed they could help me to overcome my writing disability.  in reality, none of the staff knew what in the fuck was disgraphia, and I doubt any of them cared.

As far as they were concerned, I was whining and felt "entitled".  You're fucking right I was entitled, and they were breaking the law.  At that point I had what they would refer to as a "blow up"....  as in I totally let them have it, verbally, explained how my parents would sue them into the next century, how they were violating my rights, etc.  They told me that had no rights, that I had signed them away when I came to program.  I told them they lied to me.  They told me the rules on computers had changed recently (but admissions director Richard Brimhall was still pushing the same "you can have your computer after 30 days" bullshit 6 months later. I made it a point of asking new arrivals about it.)

I demanded (and i mean demanded) my property they had confiscated back.  I wanted my palmtop so I could get a calling card number out of it to call my parents and tell them what was going on (i didn't tell them why I wanted it bakc).  I hadn't talked to my parents since my dad dropped me off (no phone calls for 30 days, no refunds after 5) and I wanted to explain to them what was going on.  The reason they did this, I later figured out when reading the correspondance with my parents, is so they could push their bullshit on them, tell them about all the fictional things I did.  I was an angel.  They told me that if I was good that I could have my computer back.  The place was stressful and i've always found computers relaxing.  That's all I wanted... just what they agreed to.

So what happened?  They refused to give me my property back.  They told me that the property was not mine... it was my parents (even though my parents always made me pay for my own stuff)  Techincally, anything else was gifted property.  I almost couldn't believe it...  I told them that they were keeping my property and that it was theft.  I told them I would call the cops.  They told me that first of all it wouldn't matter since the property was "my parents" and secondly that i would never be allowed back in program if I did (and they do hold good on that threat).  I was left in a position where I could try to see if the cops would help (and even if they did, I didn't have a place to take my stuff, I didn't know if my palmtop would need a charge to get the calling card number off, and I didn't know if my parents would help even if I could contact them (nope... they would not have, thanks to what the program had been telling them for that month without contact).

That being said, I was sure my mother would at least help.  If I couldn't leave the program, I truly believed that if I could talk to her she would set the program straight, tell them to give me my computer, and everything would be fine.  So I told the parent rep (Carl Janowitz) I was chiefly arguing with/yellign at that I was going to walk off and make a phone call (i figured i could call collect).  He told me that i would not be let back in until authorized again.  I told him "we'll see after I talk to my parents about this.  my mother has taken on a school before on this issue, and you will comply with the law".  So I walked out, went to the nearest payphone, and tried to make a collect call...  an international collect call to Ireland where my parents were living at the time.  Well...  as anybody who has ever tried it before can tell you, it's not possible (or at least not at the time).  I called 1-800-collect and asked an operator, I tried looking through the phone book....  Eventually, I gave up.  It was getting late, I was hungry, and I knew the area wasn't the greatest at night (Aaron can attest to this).  I went back to program.  They were loading up the vans to go back to the apartments.  I begged.  They realized i was desperate and so I was allowed to ride back.  I was then put on House and Room restiction.

Before that point I was following the rules, I was doing my "level requirments".  I have documentation of this (staff signatures) checking off my almost flawless behavior on the level requirements sheet.  I had no problem complying with the program as long as they did what they promised they would do.  I made up my mind to follow their orders until i got my first phone call, at which point I would tell my parents what was going on and surely, they would help me out.

I expected my parents to care, I expected them to resist, I expected them to help me out.  What happened shocked me. They told me that I "need to follow the program, do what they say, etc..."  And with that... my only advocates took the program's side, without even hearing me out...

I seriously doubt most staff realized what they were doing.  To them, they were spreading the gospel, helping people find themselves, the ultimate truth, etc...  It's what they were taught, and they believed it.  Notes that my counselors wrote (that i had to eventually threaten the program with legal action to get) reveal that they didn't seem to be deliberately deceiving anybody.  They believed it.

Jayne, and many of the executive staff, on the other hand, i'm pretty sure were just after the money.  Why?  many reasons:  They were always asking my parents for more money (he could use more time in program.. he's making progress bla bla bla, will the State department pay for more time bla bla bla...  Also, they lied (why would they if they believed it).  They either made stuff up completely out of whole cloth, made tiny offenses into crimes against humanity, and invented new rules, just for me (it's an "individualized program", LOL) when I wasn't breaking enough.

I should have figured after they confiscated my palmtop after a week or so without a reason that something was wrong(iPaq 3600 series with Tarsus fold-out full-size keyboard, they told me I could type my work on until i got my desktop back (LIE))...  Know what they told my parents they took it away for?  They tole them I was using it to cast spells.  Yes, I have this in writing, and when I release the Benchmark documetary, you'll see a lot of this.

But I bit my tongue... they told me at the end of 30 days I could have it back, so I didn't mind.  It was this "you can get it back later" crap they would use all the time... or "you'll get your level two in no time if you follow the rules, etc."  Well...   I did what they asked, I followed everything and i have my level requirements checklist that has every single thing checked off with excellent done...  I finished Building Trades in record time too (vocational education where you build furnature they sell).  Oh.  but there was one thing that was not checked off.... Item number 17:  "enough Time spent in program" which required some very subjective standards to be met such as me to make a "lasting change"...

Well.  I told them that I was there to finish high school (what I was told), and that there was nothing about myself I felt I wanted to change at the time.  My counselor agreed, initially, that i could write down "cut down on smoking" as a "personal growth" goal... Later, I was told that was not sufficient...  Everything would change as soon as I was close to it.  There was a carrot on a stick and they were leading me around.  They had universal catch 22s for everything.  I knew they were jerking me around, but I didn't know what for.  I didn't understand why they were doing what they were doing.  Unless you've been in a situation like that you really can't know how stressful it can be...

Everybody was constantly reporting on everybody, looking for things, writing down "dirt lists" on anything from somebody "breaking bans" to rumors they had heard of an un-approved love-relationship going on...  They had to approve who you were attracted to...  They had to check off (on a piece of paper, that I have) whether you were "sexually enlightened", or "ready to date". You had to write a proposal if you wanted to have sex and counselors had to deem you ready.  You had to earn your own money, rent out a hotel room, and write this whole plan down in a "proposal" for staff meeting.  So much for spontaneity.  I was told that Benchmark was very "progressive"... that no other program allowed students to have sex at all... I told them that I wasn't told this was a program.. I was told it was a school.  I felt like i was wrongfully imprisoned without even a trial.  My parents didn't even know what it was like.  They thought it was a school  I thought it was a school, even after the tour.  I couldnt' figure out why they had that 30 day no talking to parents rule but... boy did I figure that out quick.

Yeah, i became hostile, yes, I was vindictive, yes, i hurt people, yes I reported on people, yes, I played the game... we all did.  Yes, i was very, very wrong (even though the staff told us that reporting on others was "helping" them follow the program).  Writing this now... since i've avoided writing about this in depth for so long, makes me...  somewhere between sick to my stomach and angry enough to ........  Helpless.  Not any fucking more.  I am going to expose the truth about Benchmark and that school will be shut down.  It will happen.

What they did is NOT therapy.  What I'm describing i've heard in one form or another from pretty much every single program vet i've talked to.  I learned that programs generally operate pretty much alike.  All of the control communcation, all control the enviornment, all demand disclosures, all critique those as "truthful".  I learned to doubt myself in program.  I was confident before program.  I could assert myself, not what they told me to be, not what they made me, not the "real me" that I could only find by following their program.  Parent's don't realize how fucking traumatic it is, how permanant that is, how i can no longer be around groups of people and function in a normal capacity, how my stress levels go through the roof when around new people, how I am no longer able to ask a person out on a date, or even for coffee... how i can no longer tell somebody i'm in love because i'm terrified...  I learned to be silent, be passive, to avoid conflict at any cost by satisfying requests.

I was not like this before program.  It's only been since i've been thinking about these things that i've regained some of what i lost, myself.  "get over it" and "move on with your life" are NOT what is a good idea.  After leaving a program or a cult you need to examine what went on.  It's better to do it sooner rather than later, once you've learned to live with the damage.  Nope.  Normal therapists won't help.  Most don't realize how they work or what they do.  Go to one who specializes in cults, or find a friend who was in one and recognizes what's going on.

It's not therapy, it's flat out cruelty, and it's done out of greed, and sadly many parents are naive enough to belive some con artists... despite the fact that their advice might be against their better judgement they turn all decisions over to the cult representative, controlling them with fear.  Parents should be helping us to rip these places apart and hold the leaders accountable for thier crimes, offering their followers the therapy they need, but only if they want it because that's how therapy works.  It's VOLUNTARY.  It's not deceptive.  They don't have secret LGAT seminars where you're not told what to expect, where you're told to let go of your values, where your mind is played with through tricks.  THERAPY is NOT DECEPTIVE, and NOT SECRETIVE.  "Don't tell because it would ruin it for others"...  or the techniques wouldnt' work, since people would know what to expect, might ask questions, might not be surprised at the results of the games...  who knows... maybe one or two might figure out it's nothing but a repackaging of est, Lifespring, or whatever else "works" to gain the results they want: compliant, obedient, pliable, trusting, loyal, parents who bond, through a process of induced pain then comfort, with a "facilitator" whose sole interest is in making sure they can milk every last dollar until the parents end up desperate, praying to their fucking false god to save their child.

Most stuff about programs I recognized on my own, and by talking with others who were in program, but one thing I didn't realize until reading "Cults in Our Midst" is that cults truly are structured like an inverted T.  The leader is on top, and everybody else is on the bottom.  I did things in program I regret, so did staff.  I went to program under false pretenses, and so did they.  They went through the seminars too, they had no pre-existing concept of what therapy was (they deliberately hire unqualified staff with little education).  At least at the program I was at, I no longer blame most of the staff.  A few, i believe were just cruel and got off on the power, some, i'm sure weren't that way to start with but beacame taht way over time.  For the most part, however, believe most truly believed, and only truly wanted to help people.

The top, on the other hand... Jayne Longnecker, Richard brimhall, and others who deliberatly decieved parents, who could not have possibly have been ignorant to what they were doing, that they were participating in a systematic ruining of peopel's lives for profit...  They should be thrown in jail for life, preferably with some extra friendly, and extremely well endowed cellmates.  In my opinion, what they did was murder.  They advertised "therapist" and "psychologists", deliberatly lying in order to increase enrollment.  They accept more than capacity, storing the most "negative" students in motels...

Oh but The level 2s can get jobs right.... sure they can ... only jobs that give out paychecks, so they can sign them over to program...  And no, they can't keep the cash if they decide to leave.  They covered every angle and it all functions to bring cashflow in, and send it to the top.  a system like that does not form by accident and I hope Jayne someday feels something.. half of any of the pain she has caused any one student...  Even the successes, even the staff, realize what goes on in time.  How many stay more than a year or so?  WHY do they all stay silent.  I want to know that. Are they all that stupid?  do they choose not to see it because it's inconvenient to them?  Voluntary suspension of disbelief?  I need to stop.  I'm typing far too hard on this laptop keyboard.

I hope this explains a little, parents, and to you, Whooter... I dont' expect you to believe me, or to care if you do, but in time all of you will figure it out and don't say I didn't warn you.  You should hope your kids have a fraction of the mercy I have for mine.
[quote/]

Psy, do you know if the same techniques were used at the Cedu Schools, in particular, running springs?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Che Gookin

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« Reply #339 on: January 06, 2008, 09:48:47 AM »
Jane Longnecker, founder of benchmark, was a long time employee of CEDU. One of her last employments for CEDU was director of Hill Top. I'm fairly certain anyone unfortunate to have experienced Running Springs would be familiar with Hill Top.

Given the discussions Psy and I have had and comparing them with the discussions my brother and I have had about his time in RMA I'm pretty sure the tactics are close to being the same.

Perhaps time has given Jane a few new wrinkles to her mad schemes, but the meaty substance of the tactics at play in Benchmark has that distinct CEDU flavor about it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline psy

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Re: yeah
« Reply #340 on: January 06, 2008, 11:19:56 AM »
Quote
Psy, do you know if the same techniques were used at the Cedu Schools, in particular, running springs?


Um...  Remember that parent rep guy I mentioned, Carl Janowitz: Running springs CEDU.  He was the guy obsessed with the masks doctrine.  He is the one who really cracked my skull open.  Once I really broke down, he volunteered some of his doctrine, which i became very much a true believer in for a while...  He also worked at a bunch of other CEDU affiliated schools, as well as *cough* Cascade.  According to Benchmark, he died of cancer while in .. *cough* .. retirement, in thailand.

Jayne Longnecker...  Director of CEDU Hilltop from 86-93.  As I understand it, her daughter, Joelle Walters, also volunteered there for some time.  In any case, Joelle is now the high priestess of the LGAT workshops.

Sharon Scoggins worked for the accounting department at CEDU from 1980 til 1994.  I'd love to know more about her.

I've also heard rumors that a Steve Ornalis used to work for CEDU before coming to Benchmark, then leaving, but I wasn't there and would have to look through my interviews to see if anybody mentioned him.

Most of their employees they get out of various rehabs on the cheap, though, especially one in particular: Cedar House which the kids are sometimes bussed to for AA meetings (but probably not anymore, now that i've mentioned it here).
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline psy

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Re: hehehehe
« Reply #341 on: January 10, 2008, 12:33:33 AM »
Quote from: ""a voice from nowhere""
go ahead, guest lurker Monarch parents. It's not like we can, ummmm. trace (oops!) your ISP.

We (admins) could, but we (admins) don't...  Even with TheWho.  Why?  Because if we started doing that, nobody would feel safe posting here.

But take a look at this:

Quote
And I know no man is an island


It seems to me as if they're still doing propheets.  Aah CEDU... Same shit, different name, and the usual "we don't do that anymore".. LOL
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #342 on: January 10, 2008, 09:19:30 AM »
Do you know what happened to the 100 page asr thread, psy? I've not been able to find it.
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Offline psy

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« Reply #343 on: January 10, 2008, 09:33:53 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Do you know what happened to the 100 page asr thread, psy? I've not been able to find it.


Now I do....

http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=305261#305261

aah... it's going to be a fun weekend...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline Che Gookin

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« Reply #344 on: January 10, 2008, 10:56:13 AM »
You do realize Ginger knows about the thread deletion and made absolutely no attempt to reverse it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »