does this sound at all true?

[Antigen]

On 2006-01-23 18:55:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

So then, you don't even hold out the pretense that this is about service to the kids. This is only about how better and more reliably to open the parents' wallets

come on -- we both know it is about the business and and the service to the kids.

...
  How else is a business going to improve?  

Well, they might ask the kids (many of them now grown) and see what they think of the service. Instead, when kids do volunteer to say what they think of the place, they get law enforcement and/or process servers banging on their doors. Seems to me they don't really want to know. But that stands to reason. They don't seem too concerned w/ ruling out neuroses in the parents before treating the kids either. Distraught parents w/ money are the only obvious criteria for admission and happy parents bereft of as much of their money as is possible seems to be the goal.

Children, after all, are to be seen and not heard, right?

...it is worth discussing radical changes, not in the expectation that they will be adopted promptly but for two other reasons. One is to construct an ideal goal, so that incremental changes can be judged by whether they move the institutional structure toward or away from that ideal. The other reason is very different. It is so that if a crisis requiring or facilitating radical change does arise, alternatives will be available that have been carefully developed and fully explored."

http://lfb.com/?stocknumber=103&code=10247' target='_new'>Milton Friedman

[Deborah]

I'd think that if they wanted to know what 'doesn't' work and what might be changed, that they'd be seeking the opinions of those who were unhappy with their 'service'. There a few here. I know they're reading, not sure if they're taking notes.

[Anonymous]

This young lady says it rather well:

no matter what, that place kept us from the people we loved, controlled our minds (or tried to ) and brought up new problems that all of us probablly never had....They can change the food, change the "off campus trips" and whatever, but the will never change their mind games or their power trips. Thank god for the staff the would be themselves secretly to me and understand me on a realistic way, or else i woulda never made it through- ugh

Mind games, power trips. Does anyone at HLA believe that these kids don't know what's being done to them? You'd be fooling yourself.

http://www.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseac ... 9863810341

[TheWho]

***** Because your survey is bullshit, its based on faulty data but youre passing it off to potential customers as being scientific. *****

I dont think I mentioned it was scientific,  I think I said "Level of the water"  which is a general idea or a feel for  "How we doin"

***** No one ever contacted my parents, nor have the contacted a number of parents of former inmates I speak to. *****  

Cant answer why,  I do know that many companies perform surveys for periods of time and/or every few years, its not ongoing.  So you may have been missed.

***** Furthermore I can tell you without a doubt that of all the former inmates I speak to the ones who got pulled on average do better than the ones who stayed in.  
Hows that for a survey?  *****

and you consider that a Clinical Study??  Are you basing your decisions about the place based on your findings??  Are they accurate?  Did you include everyone?  Are the people you speak with biased against the school or are they a cross section of all those that left the school?

[TheWho]

***** Because your survey is bullshit, its based on faulty data but youre passing it off to potential customers as being scientific. *****

I dont think I mentioned it was scientific,  I think I said "Level of the water"  which is a general idea or a feel for  "How we doin"

***** No one ever contacted my parents, nor have the contacted a number of parents of former inmates I speak to. *****  

Cant answer why,  I do know that many companies perform surveys for periods of time and/or every few years, its not ongoing.  So you may have been missed.

***** Furthermore I can tell you without a doubt that of all the former inmates I speak to the ones who got pulled on average do better than the ones who stayed in.  
Hows that for a survey?  *****

and you consider that a Clinical Study??  Are you basing your decisions about the place based on your findings??  Are they accurate?  Did you include everyone?  Are the people you speak with biased against the school or are they a cross section of all those that left the school?

[TheWho]

***** Well, they might ask the kids (many of them now grown) and see what they think of the service. Instead, when kids do volunteer to say what they think of the place, they get law enforcement and/or process servers banging on their doors. Seems to me they don't really want to know. But that stands to reason. They don't seem too concerned w/ ruling out neuroses in the parents before treating the kids either. Distraught parents w/ money are the only obvious criteria for admission and happy parents bereft of as much of their money as is possible seems to be the goal. *****

Every business wants to know how their end product is doing (even if they know they are producing junk) its one of the best ways to adjust their price to meet demand.  
They typically survey families who have recently graduated or left and then again after some time has passed to see how things have progressed.  Kids who have been out for many years are not typically of value because the schools policys change over time. improve so to speak.  
Car companies dont care how you like the suspension on your 1987 buick because so many improvements have been done since then the data is useless, they are more interested in feed back from more recent models.
Yes, you are right, money is the goal.  But in order to beat the competition you have to keep providing better results and more value.

****Children, after all, are to be seen and not heard, right? *****

Not sure how to respond to that or if it is in reference to something I said.  If you are asking if I agree with that statement, I dont.

[Troll Control]

So, let me see if I'm getting this right.  You want to know what the kids think about the program, right?  You've said that.

How does that reconcile with the incontrovertable fact that when these kids  (or former staff members for that matter) do speak up and say your program harmed them or you ripped them off, they get a nice visit from the Sherriff's deputy or a process server notifying them that they're being sued by you for spaeking out?

You want to hear feedback, but not anything negative or you sue.  Pretty disturbing.

[TheWho]

On 2006-01-24 10:43:00, Anonymous wrote:

"So, let me see if I'm getting this right.  You want to know what the kids think about the program, right?  You've said that.



How does that reconcile with the incontrovertable fact that when these kids  (or former staff members for that matter) do speak up and say your program harmed them or you ripped them off, they get a nice visit from the Sherriff's deputy or a process server notifying them that they're being sued by you for spaeking out?



You want to hear feedback, but not anything negative or you sue.  Pretty disturbing."

No not what kids think.  We are talking about this from a purely business perspective, or I am.  I noted that a survey is a quick way to tell how the kids are doing?  Or survey the parents after the kids leave.  This gives the business feed back on how the graduates are doing vs the ones who did not complete the program.
If this exercise is done periodically the school can get a broad or general idea if they are improving or not.  A clinical study takes time and is expensive, and all too many times is inconclusive.  A survey contains realtime data that can be applied immediately.

I also noted that it is typical to see a trend where those kids who drop out early do not do as well as those who complete the program.  This is important information which would effect the business plan.  This can be used to leverage or persuade the parents to have their kids finish.

[TheWho]

On 2006-01-24 10:43:00, Anonymous wrote:

"So, let me see if I'm getting this right.  You want to know what the kids think about the program, right?  You've said that.



How does that reconcile with the incontrovertable fact that when these kids  (or former staff members for that matter) do speak up and say your program harmed them or you ripped them off, they get a nice visit from the Sherriff's deputy or a process server notifying them that they're being sued by you for spaeking out?



You want to hear feedback, but not anything negative or you sue.  Pretty disturbing."

If someone is soliciting your opinion and you give it you cannot be sued.  Whoever told you this is blowing smoke.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-01-24 11:39:00, Anonymous wrote:

 A clinical study takes time and is expensive, and all too many times is inconclusive.  A survey contains realtime data that can be applied immediately.

You can't be serious.  You're actually comparing the value of a clinical study to that of informal and dubious "surveys"?

I also noted that it is typical to see a trend where those kids who drop out early do not do as well as those who complete the program.  This is important information which would effect the business plan.  This can be used to leverage or persuade the parents to have their kids finish."

BINGO!

[Troll Control]

On 2006-01-24 11:41:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2006-01-24 10:43:00, Anonymous wrote:


"So, let me see if I'm getting this right.  You want to know what the kids think about the program, right?  You've said that.





How does that reconcile with the incontrovertable fact that when these kids  (or former staff members for that matter) do speak up and say your program harmed them or you ripped them off, they get a nice visit from the Sherriff's deputy or a process server notifying them that they're being sued by you for spaeking out?





You want to hear feedback, but not anything negative or you sue.  Pretty disturbing."

If someone is soliciting your opinion and you give it you cannot be sued.  Whoever told you this is blowing smoke."

Really now?  How about Marla, the HLA Special Education teacher who was so distressed about the mistreatment of kids at HLA that she was compelled to quit her job?  When she posted her opinions, she was immediately sued.

How about Overlord?  He posted his opinions and was immediately sued.

That's two in the past 3 months.

Ginger, help us out.  Please post the links once more for the demand letters you received from HLA.

Blowing smoke?  No, INCONTROVERTABLE FACT as stated earlier.  You seem to not understand that lawsuits come with PAPERWORK.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-01-16 14:41:00, Eudora (fka ~ Antigen) wrote:

"Here's the cover letter:

 http://fornits.com/anonanon/docs/HLA/Ov ... .16.06.doc



Here's the consent order:

 http://fornits.com/anonanon/docs/HLA/Ov ... onsent.pdf



And here's OverLordd's profile

 http://fornits.com/wwf/bb_profile.php?m ... &user=2584



Joe, you just feel free to drop a comment once in awhile while you're reading. And please say hi to your brother, Mark out in Boone for me.  :wave:

There go the people. I must follow them for I am their leader.
--Alexandre Ledru-Rollin

"

[Antigen]

On 2006-01-24 11:41:00, Anonymous wrote:


If someone is soliciting your opinion and you give it you cannot be sued.  Whoever told you this is blowing smoke."

Well, to be perfectly accurate, a suite following a solicited opinion would probably be falacious. Interesting that you know that detail, and yet you spend so damned much time around here trolling for complaints.

Ya'll got that, right? In the event you get sued for answering questions about a program and you suspect that the plaintif is somehow connected w/ this (or other) anon soliciting information like this, please tell your lawyer (or prospective lawyer) to contact me. I ain't easy, I do things proper. I will require a valid subpoena, court order or other legally compelling instrument. But the evidence can be had.

And wouldn't it just be nice to spank the manipulative, sneaky bastards down for this sort of thing just one time. You'd be helping make Cyberia a safer place for free speech and getting a small token of vindication at the same time. Such a deal!

We are a one party country. Half of them call themselves Democrats and the other half call themselves Republicans. All the good ideas come from the Libertarians.
--Hugh Downs

[Antigen]

On 2006-01-24 05:51:00, Anonymous wrote:

Every business wants to know how their end product is doing (even if they know they are producing junk)

Well let me help you out a little bit. You're selling junk. What your selling is nothing but coercive persuasion, which is less than worthless even at best. Often times, what you're selling is an escalation from manageable family troubles to permanent, irreconcilable family dissolution.

Let me help you further. You don't even have to go to the trouble of tracking down your former clients, even by way of their parents (those among them who will still come to the phone for you and whom you haven't sued already) All you have to do is occasionally google the name of the companies who's "services" you sell and you'll get an eyeful. If you want to make a nod to concienciousness, you could even take the inprecidented step (in your line of work) and confirm the identities and double check the details of the former clients who are willing to participate in your survey.

Of course, no sane person is going to be willing to talk to you unless and untill you live down your reputation as a sadistic thug who goes around taunting, humiliating and then suing little boys.

To seek out the best through the whole Union, we must resort to the information which from the best of men, acting disinterestedly and with the purest motives, is sometimes incorrect.
Why I Live at the PO

[LMJ630]

The important thing to remember about being sued for libel, slander, defamation, etc. is this: you do not have grounds for a lawsuit unless the person publishes the defaming information to a third party.  If you solicit someone's opinion and they say something defamatory to you, you can try to sue them, but of course you will get nowhere.  It appears that other people have been sued because they posted/published negative information about HLA to other parties, on this website or someplace else.

Hope this clears up any confusion.
Have a nice day all  :smile: