Author Topic: Another 73/74 Seedling Grad  (Read 18797 times)

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Offline Stripe

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Another 73/74 Seedling Grad
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2006, 11:33:00 AM »
Well, if it seems that on the seed discussion forum it's still the same old same old for seedlings, that's because it is. There's really only a couple of ways to handle the factual information you will learn about The Seed when you actaully read it in context and believe it some 30 years later.

Faithful, true Seedlings come here and are amazed that people were hurt and are "still" agonizing over the experience.  Most seedlings staying true to their programming will say I should just get over it, stop hurting, stop being angry, stop expressing feelings that cause other's doubt and make them uncomfortable because my contrary feelings are not important to the well-being of the group.....

Thanks for the helpful hint - about as helpful in real life as telling someone you know and love that you don't want to talk to them anymore because they LOOK like a druggie, or a bank teller who miscounts your money, or the bag boy who breaks your eggs...

Please do not fail to see that the distress most people feel upon coming to this place is caused by awakening to the facts of the mistreatment received while we were there.  

As for any measured rate of failure vs. success between true seedlings and those who openly reject the teachings?   We all have successes and failures in life.  I think it's just as stupid to blame those shortfalls on a person's failure to engage the programming "tools" as it is to give the seed programming credit for all of the success and happiness in your life.
When your life view hinges on programmed perceptions, you take yourself right out of the mix and you are no longer personally responsible for the results on either side of the equation.  

"If it wasn't for the seed I'd be deadinsaneorinjail."  Geeze, that's such a lie.  I was made insane by that place, nearly killed myself trying to overcome the programming and resided in my own jail trying to live within the confines of the programming.    
     

When seedlings begin to question the techniques used to make them compliant and straight individuals, well - there is usually one several reactions:

1.  Some people are frightened by the realization of how controlled they were and they retreat into their safe confortable mindsets and refuse to accept the challenge of growing up a bit more. It's hard realizing and accepting that you have had a hand in your own emotional rape - or that you have hurt other's along your path and quest for seed-like perfection.


2. Some people get angry and become zealots on the other side of the equation fighting and lashing out at people around them, trying in vain to awaken themselves and others - that would be me. And  as time passes, I become less angry and more reflective, but a zealot nonetheless.  Poke poke.

3.  Some people still spout the company line about how "fucked up" they were, how they didn't love themselves,etc., etc., etc., - you have all sat through the I-was-a-bad-ungrateful-motherfucker-before-the-seed routine.  It's said with a vengence and as a means of protection. Kind of like sticking your fingers in your ears and then screaming Na-nana-na-na-na-na like little kids do when we tell them something they don't want to hear.

Will we, collectively, ever reconcile all this?  Maybe.  But one has to realize that the seed, I think in more cases that we are willing or able to admit, has stunted us all at some point in time. Some will make it, some will not.

It stunted me emotionally and I was stuck in that place for many, many years, using those tools. And I tried everything to get over it - 12 stepping for Ala-non, ACOA, support groups, church, yoga, spiritualism, eastern pholosophy, western philosophy, sex, drugs and even punk rock and roll.  I really did try it all looking for the reasons for the intense feelings of rage, emptiness, self-loathing, sorrow and shame. Quite a nasty handful tolug around for 30+ years, but ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

But not until I understood the truth of the seed's program (the hows and whys) did I understand that I was not living my heart's desires. Instead I was imposing outside rules on my heart and life decisions and by doing so, I was constantly ending up in fucked-up, incredibly painful situations.  I was "doing the right thing" or separating myself from people and following the external dogma when my heart truly wanted to go in the opposite direction.  

I have experienced no greater sense of relief and peace than the peace that has come with understanding (1) that I was programmed; and (2) that the programming finally failed.

To quote Martin Luther King, and I know it's horribly out of context but the words move me so,

"Free at last, free at last.  Thank God I'm free at last..."
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
The person who stands up and says, ``This is stupid,\'\' either is asked to `behave\' or, worse, is greeted with a cheerful ``Yes, we know! Isn\'t it terrific ?\'\' -- Frank Zappa

Offline Antigen

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Another 73/74 Seedling Grad
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2006, 12:32:00 AM »
Quote
On 2006-01-01 13:14:00, Anonymous wrote:


  I believe it's a state of mind, as to WHAT EACH person does with their experience.  I could look back and complain about being "locked up" for a year or whatever, or I could choose to use some of the tools offered and get something out of it.  I choose to use it to my benefit instaed of being a "victim".

  Wish more people would.  Life is better that way."


Yeah, I hear Prozac and benzos are real good for that. I choose to use any available means to help put an end to the catastrophically dangerous perception that the Program method is the safest, most effective and (more and more often) legally mandated form of treatment for everything from pot smoking to oppositional defiance disorder and draptomania.

Babylon in all its desolation is a sight not so awful as that of the human mind in ruins.
-- Scrope Davies: Letter to Thomas Raikes, May 25, 1835.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline Antigen

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Another 73/74 Seedling Grad
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2006, 12:45:00 AM »
Quote
On 2006-01-01 16:39:00, Anonymous wrote:

Curiosity piqued my desire to go looking for some grads. I expected to find people who were mildy successful and mostly happy with their life. Does this fit any of you?
Neil


Yeah, that's me. I didn't graduate the Seed, though. Most of my family did, then I went to Straight. What a long, strange trip it's been, too! But I have about everything I ever wanted now.

Religion is a byproduct of fear. For much of human history, it may have been a necessary evil, but why was it more evil than necessary? Isn't killing people in the name of God a pretty good definition of insanity?
--Arthur C. Clarke, author

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline Antigen

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Another 73/74 Seedling Grad
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2006, 12:48:00 AM »
Quote
On 2006-01-01 19:51:00, Anonymous wrote:

Call me selfish, blind, irresponsible or whatever but researching the outcome of Seed Grads is not one of the pertinent issues in my life. It?s curiosity at best.


Uh, Neil, you were the one to [egheghm] suggest that we're all a bunch of angry fuckups and failures. Got studies to support that?

It only takes a little prescience to understand that we're all fair game for the deeds we condone.

--Antigen

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline Antigen

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Another 73/74 Seedling Grad
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2006, 12:55:00 AM »
Quote
On 2006-01-01 21:15:00, Anonymous wrote:

Please don't accuse me of not caring or being uncompassionate.


But you are being uncompassionate. And really hostile, too. Do you talk to people in real life like this?

Think of it in just a slightly different context. What if you got a kidney transplant and all went incredibly well, beyond all expectations. You thank the doctors and the good mother earth and come to nearly worship the staff and think of them and other patient families as family away from home. All that's great till you find out that your new kidney came from a healthy young highschool kid. They just clubbed him over the head, took the damned thing w/o his consent, patched him up a bit then shoved him out the door to make way for the next one and the next.

Still think those mother fuckers are heros worthy of your adoration and defense?

Creationists make it sound like a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night.
--Isaac Asimov, Russian-born American author



_________________
Drug war POW
Straight, Sarasota
`80 - `82
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline Antigen

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Another 73/74 Seedling Grad
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2006, 01:01:00 AM »
Quote
On 2006-01-01 21:15:00, Anonymous wrote:

Without the rigor of being tested at every move by someone tuned into my crap, it became easy to let little shit slip here and there.

Yeah, I had a bit of a rough time relearning things like time management, planning, decision making, apropriate social behavior... I could go on. But I didn't think of that as a good outcome. It's a terrible outcome. I went in a rather confident (cockey? hell yeah!) competent 16yo and came out a very mixed up, directionless, cowed 18yo near orphan.

Quote
I miss the clearness of those days.


Clarity? Or pleasant illusion? You actually miss having others do all your thinking for you?

Religion is based . . . mainly on fear . . . fear of the mysterious, fear of defeat, fear of death. Fear is the parent of cruelty, and therefore it is no wonder if cruelty and religion have gone hand in hand. . . . My own view on religion is that of Lucretius. I regard it as a disease born of fear and as a source of untold misery to the human race.
--Bertrand Russell, British philosopher, educator, mathemetician, and social critic

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Anonymous

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Another 73/74 Seedling Grad
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2006, 08:12:00 AM »
::crybaby::  ::crybaby::  ::crybaby::  ::boohoo::  ::boohoo::
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Offline Anonymous

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Another 73/74 Seedling Grad
« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2006, 08:55:00 PM »
ginger did i just read correctly that you are telling someone that they are talking to people with hostility? you? accusing someone of being hostile?

amazing. people here call one another names periodically or better yet just call people who dont post here names but were too associated with seed so they are fair game, and no one says anything. but reading these posts the guys being hostile. yea...ok ...sure ...whatever....

oh thats right...i forgot. its not what you say, its what ginger decides you meant by it all.i forgot.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2006, 09:14:00 PM »
don't blame the players, blame the game :smokin:
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Offline GregFL

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Another 73/74 Seedling Grad
« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2006, 10:56:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-01-03 17:55:00, Anonymous wrote:

"ginger did i just read correctly that you are telling someone that they are talking to people with hostility? you? accusing someone of being hostile?



amazing. people here call one another names periodically or better yet just call people who dont post here names but were too associated with seed so they are fair game, and no one says anything. but reading these posts the guys being hostile. yea...ok ...sure ...whatever....






oh thats right...i forgot. its not what you say, its what ginger decides you meant by it all.i forgot.



"


wha..?
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Offline Antigen

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Another 73/74 Seedling Grad
« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2006, 11:31:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-01-01 16:39:00, Anonymous wrote:

"WOW!



Are all Seedlings this torqued up?
...

Curiosity piqued my desire to go looking for some grads. I expected to find people who were mildy successful and mostly happy with their life. Does this fit any of you?

Neil"


Yeah, I'd call that hostile. What's your definition?

This is not an accusation, just an observation; a statement of fact. Hostility is really not a crime. You're allowed to be hostile. You can even be hostile and right at the same time.

It's just frustrating. You guys get angry and hostile. You start out with insults then, when you get exactly the response you might expect, you start whining about how hostile and mean everybdy is.

I spent a huge amount of time and energy freeing myself from people who think this is civilized behavior.


I didn't intend for this to take on a political tone, I'm just here for the drugs.
--First Lady, Nancy Reagan at a Just Say No rally

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Anonymous

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Another 73/74 Seedling Grad
« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2006, 07:21:00 AM »
actually i have never started out hostile ginger. what catagory are you lumping me in? pro seed? wrong.  i've never started out with insults, or insulted someone, unless you want to call my post last night to you and insult. perhaps that qualifies. but for some reason you are lumping me in that catagory. hey i've even had greg get angry with me, for pursuing an issue that i turned out to be correct on. but my choice was to apolgies to him for trying his patience.

but since i dont start off with insults with people - then i am not getting the response i woudl expect. but if i read this correct, i guess when people post things about their feelings at the seed then i can say anything i want to them. call them whiney cry babies if i feel like it. because if they complain about my response, then they are just whining. i am just infering this from the order of events here. he posts, you tell him he's hostile and wrong about everything, i post and i am whining. so that seems to be the rules.  or maybe, when stripe posts her views on her experiences - i should step back and think that right or wrong its her feelings, and my response back to her should be somewhat mneasured when "discussing" her seed experiences? this was supposed to be dialogue? what gets accomplished when it gets down to accusations? dialogue?

dont lump me in any catagory ginger or any group. its inaccurate and a cop out. i am not respsonsible for what anyone else posts on this board, and if they do something its their problem.



and i hardly call that hostile. are seedlings this torgued up? hostile? some of the insults i've read on the board are hostile. that, please.


and whats wrong with being civilized? if i chose to respond in an uncivilized manner to some fo the posts i read i'd have some really nasty things to wind up saying? are you telling me i can start saying them? because if i tell someone these things, i am quite certain i will be called "unsenstive' as neil was in this post here. something will be said about how i am missing about how everyone suffered and i need to not talked to them that way because i am wrong. so if i am going to do something thats wrong, how is that permitted?  its generally my goal to only do things to people that i consider acceptable to being done to me. if its not acceptable to be done to me, then i dont do it to others.

and for greg - my response isnt that hard to follow. i was refering back to a post from ginger where she took something i maggie said and reworded maggies statement to "everyone just shut the fuck up"  -   and the hostility thing. well thats easy. the first time i was on this board ginger stands out as the most combative person here, by a mile.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2006, 08:14:00 AM »
ditto, I'll second.
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Offline Anonymous

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Another 73/74 Seedling Grad
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2006, 09:27:00 AM »
Quote

On 2006-01-02 21:48:00, Antigen wrote:

"
Quote


Uh, Neil, you were the one to [egheghm] suggest that we're all a bunch of angry fuckups and failures. Got studies to support that?

Antigen,
I'm not sure how you got the impression that I thought you all were a bunch of angry fuck ups. Your responses to my comments indicate to me that you are angry though...
Neil
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Offline GregFL

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Another 73/74 Seedling Grad
« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2006, 09:54:00 AM »
Lets start this over.  This unattached floating hostility is not going anywhere.

Neil, yes you can post anything you want within reason.  

Just be aware, statements like "all are seedlings this torqued up" may get a reaction. Don't expect agreement, but your opinions are just as valid as anyone else's here, and your hostility, either actual or perceived, is okay also.  A disussion board should thrive on differences of opinion, so express yours freely and don't get offended when others don't agree.



Lets move on.
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