Another 73/74 Seedling Grad

[Anonymous]

Good to find some fellow Seed Grads. I'm part of the Naples contingent.
It seems like there is a lot of pain left in the folks I find here. The most dangerous part of the Seed for me was driving Alligator Alley twice on Wednesdays and then again on Friday & Sunday.
For me, The Seed made the difference. I needed a slap in the face and a kick in the ass. For those of us who were attitude problems with mild drug issues, that is exactly what we needed. When I left the program, I moved on with my life struggling with the same issues that got me on the front row but I was given great tools to use to keep moving ahead.
I blew my highschool career but becasue of the impact of the seed, I was able to salvage something of an education.
I haven't been tuned into the bad shit that has happend to some of the other grads and I'm sad for those. I'm glad I went to the Seed. I'm dissapointed that I needed to but I thank my parents for doing something to shake me off my distructive path. I don't know that I could do the same for my kids. I'm lucky to have two kids that are smart and well balanced. My parental issues are the classes they are taking, not trying to figure out where the seeds in their pockets came from... I certainly deserve worse.

Cheers & Happy New Year,
Jesus Christ! 32 years ago? Is that right? Holy Shit!
[email protected]

[Anonymous]

Cheers back at you

[Anonymous]

Welcome to the forum!

On 2005-12-31 21:30:00, Anonymous wrote:



For me, The Seed made the difference. I needed a slap in the face and a kick in the ass. For those of us who were attitude problems with mild drug issues, that is exactly what we needed.

Er, speak for yourself there pal.  I Think many of us would take exception to that particular perception.

 When I left the program, I moved on with my life struggling with the same issues that got me on the front row.

No suprise there.  Most of us did.  The "magic" seemed to wear off rather quick.

but I was given great tools to use to keep moving ahead.

The steps and signs?    I disagree wholeheartedly. Most people took these "tools" and believed they were powerless and doomed without the seed.  I see a hugely negative value in these set of 'tools' in or out of context. What about the rest of the 'tools'? Learning to keep a human captive? Humiliation? Degradation, ass-kissing? Conformaty?  Self-loating? black and white thinking? Hero-worship?
 
Just what "tool" you got from that nuthouse is valuable?  

I blew my highschool career...but becasue of the impact of the seed, I was able to salvage something of an education...

 I'm dissapointed that I needed to but I thank my parents for doing something to shake me off my distructive path. I don't know that I could do the same for my kids. I'm lucky to have two kids that are smart and well balanced. My parental issues are the classes they are taking, not trying to figure out where the seeds in their pockets came from... I certainly deserve worse.

This just never seems to give me a little surprise.  People proclaim somehow they "needed" the seed because they did a little drugs and were somehow 'doomed' because of this and their general fuck upedness.

Then, lo and behold... they admit they continued to use and have the same "issues" after being released, they acknowledge  their education took a rousing fucking. In spite of this non-result, They thank their parents for doing this to them but shudder at the thought of doing it to their own kids who are....drum roll...very much like they were with the seeds of death,insanity or jail rolling around in their pocket.  Is this reality we speak of here?

Did the seed really convince people they were that fucked up before 'treatment' and so much different than their own children?  That they didn't possess the goodness and intelligence of their own children, and that they were bound to self destruct without being locked away in a warehouse full of singing hitlers?

[SurRobinHood]

We are constanly going on in these forums about how one size does not fit all. It obviosly does fit a few but if one child was harmed then I think that is one too  many. How can anyone equate the seed as being a saviour to them if it did so at the destruction of others? Were you so important that others should be sacrificed to make your life better? Just because you were too dull and unimaginative to help yourself? Even a blind pig finds an acorn every once and the cookie cutter apraoch to therapy will everyonce in a while find a cookie that fits it. I'm sure some bad people died when we saturation bombed iraq but was it worth all the innocent lives that were lost? So it was with the seed and it's spawn and continues to this day.

_________________
Life may be short but it is also very wide, go around the yucky parts when you can.[ This Message was edited by: SurRobinHood on 2006-01-01 09:49 ]

[Anonymous]

On 2006-01-01 09:46:00, SurRobinHood wrote:

"We are constanly going on in these forums about how one size does not fit all. It obviosly does fit a few but if one child was harmed then I think that is one too  many. How can anyone equate the seed as being a saviour to them if it did so at the destruction of others? Were you so important that others should be sacrificed to make your life better? Just because you were too dull and unimaginative to help yourself? Even a blind pig finds an acorn every once and the cookie cutter apraoch to therapy will everyonce in a while find a cookie that fits it. I'm sure some bad people died when we saturation bombed iraq but was it worth all the innocent lives that were lost? So it was with the seed and it's spawn and continues to this day.



_________________

Life may be short but it is also very wide, go around the yucky parts when you can.[ This Message was edited by: SurRobinHood on 2006-01-01 09:49 ]"

  I believe it's a state of mind, as to WHAT EACH person does with their experience.  I could look back and complain about being "locked up" for a year or whatever, or I could choose to use some of the tools offered and get something out of it.  I choose to use it to my benefit instaed of being a "victim".
  Wish more people would.  Life is better that way.

[JaLong]

I agree with you anon. I was angry at first that my parents hijacked me into the seed. Yet lo and behold, I learned somethings in there. I too walked away with some tools, and that helped, along with therapy, to find me and grow. I know now being taken off of the streets and put into the seed did save my life. Most of my old "druggie friends" are now dead, and 99 percent from drug overdoses. I am still alive and living a happy life.
 Yes, there are two sides to every coin, yet most of my experience in the seed from 72-73 wasn't all that horrible. I had to look my demon right in the eyes, because he was on staff. So is life. If life were just a bowl of cherries and great, I know I would have never grown up. On this forum one size doesn't fit all... agree! There are people who show no tolerance for the pro-seed, and a whole bunch of anti-seed. Yet aren't those differences is what makes the world go round... :smile: [ This Message was edited by: JaLong on 2006-01-01 16:21 ]

[Anonymous]

WOW!

Are all Seedlings this torqued up?

I fixed my life because of the experience I had at the Seed. Maybe I would have anyway, maybe not. The fact is, I'm better for it. What others did with their experience was not and is not my responsibility or concern. Whatever soaps were going on with the staff was not my concern. I was there to fix me, not participate in a larger society.
Curiosity piqued my desire to go looking for some grads. I expected to find people who were mildy successful and mostly happy with their life. Does this fit any of you?
Neil

[Anonymous]

I notice none of you who responded to my post attempted to answer any of the questions I posed there. Avoiding something?
Still copping out?

[SurRobinHood]

I noticed none of you who responded to my post attempted to answer any of the questions I posed there. Avoiding something? Still copping out? I admited it did help some people but at what cost? It was not a matter of choosing to look at the bright side of life. We weren't offered any choices. If it helped you great but what about the others? You wonder how many succeded after the seed but do you wonder how many people were drivin over the edge and started cutting people into little pieces with mansons buddies? How many suicides from lack of self esteem because they bought those tainted goods that said they were worthless without the seed in their life? How many couldnt live for themselves so they joined a more destructive cult after they couldnt live up to the seeds standards and were rejected by their families? I am more than happy to see that there were some positive affects on some people. Are you willing to see that the opposite is also true?

[Anonymous]

On 2006-01-01 19:02:00, SurRobinHood wrote:

You wonder how many succeded after the seed but do you wonder how many people were drivin over the edge and started cutting people into little pieces with mansons buddies?

I am more than happy to see that there were some positive affects on some people. Are you willing to see that the opposite is also true?
"

Sur Robin,
I feel you are aiming at my head and not the apple there upon....

To be accurate, I said "I expected to find mildly successful..." grads. I certainly didn't expect to find hordes of ruined lives and I would be quite dismayed to find that what you say is true.
Are your statements, about the demise of so many grad's lives, opinion based on anecdotal evidence or fact based on controlled surveys and historical data? If there are such studies that are published, it would be interesting to read them.
Call me selfish, blind, irresponsible or whatever but researching the outcome of Seed Grads is not one of the pertinent issues in my life. It?s curiosity at best.
Neil

[SurRobinHood]

Well if you consider these forums and the books written about the seed as anectdotal then some of my info is. As far as my personal experience goes every seedling I have met since or know of from my days there had joined other cults or deadinsaneorinjail to use the common vernacular. I have no personal experience with a single seed success story and have only ever heard one here on these forums. Until comeing here I had no idea there were any pro seed people who were not still in the bussiness. I'm not aiming anything at your head or your apples. I'm trying to inspire compasion. Still no response to my questions.

[SurRobinHood]

Looking back through the baghead responses I see at least neil did respond. He says it's not  his concern .... hmmm ... he could care less, as long as he got his so what about everyone else. I guess it's the american way......

[Anonymous]

Sur Robin,

Thanks for not aiming at my apples...

As I read through some of the other threads, I'm starting to get a feel of some of the personalities.
Please don't accuse me of not caring or being uncompassionate.
The Seed did not convince me that my previous life was fucked up. It was. The fact that I was going nowhere but down was not a perception built by the Seed.
Somewhere in a scrapbook I have two report cards. One from the final semester of my 11th grade and one from the 1st semester of the 12th. Fs and incompletes transformed into straight As. (attending school helped tremdeously)
Before the Seed, I stole $20 a day for months from my boss to ?buy? and when I returned, I repaid him as close to what I could figure I skimmed from him. It took months of most of my paycheck.
Etc. etc. etc.
Tools? Self awareness and balls.
I learned to pay attention to what ?I? needed. I got the strength to do what ?I? needed to do.
Were the tactics of The Seed cultish and brutal? Yes, I imagine they were. Was I forced to endure it? Yes. But, I chose not to perceive it as some fucked up place that screwed people up. I didn?t slide under the gate and try to ?Split? or haul ass from my old comer?s house. I realized that it was up to me to ?fix? me and they were going to use whatever pressure they could bring to make me do it. So, I chose to do it.
Not long after I graduated, I learned that the ?rules? were not to live by but to keep me on the right road until I could figure out my own rules. I have done that with some success yet I will accentuate ?Some?.
The magic did wear off. It was the magic of honesty. Without the rigor of being tested at every move by someone tuned into my crap, it became easy to let little shit slip here and there. I miss the clearness of those days.
At any rate. It?s never occurred to me to check on the reality of The Seed to see if it had a shinning star or dirty secrets. I went through a fucked up time in my life and I got ?straight?. I never felt, nor has anyone every put any expectation on me to go looking. I had the impression that ?The Seed? wanted me to go out and do my life the best I could. That?s what I?ve tried to do.
Neil

[Anonymous]

Lookie here, he got it.

[GregFL]

On 2006-01-01 21:15:00, Anonymous wrote:



The magic did wear off. It was the magic of honesty.

Okay, Im calling major bullshit on that statement. THe seed was perhaps one of the most dishonest places ever conceived of. Art was a pathological liar, they lied to get you in the place, they lied about how long you could stay, they lied about "awareness", They lied about court orders, they lied to the press,  they told you to lie to your parents about what when on in group, and on and on.

In fact, just like any cult, they redefined the term honesty to mean "tell me what I expect to hear". If you really tried to be "honest" such as standing up and saying something like "you know, it is cruel and heartless to feed teenage kids wet PB&Y sandwhiches and make them sit in chairs all day", or "sure I had fun before I came in the seed..one time I went to this party and got a blowjob and it was great"  your ass would be chewed out for hours and you would lose all the time you invested in the program. The place wasnt' just dishonest it punished real honesty and then redefined honesty.  One of the markers of cults, BTW.

 Honesty was redefined to fit expectations within the group.

 

Curiosity piqued my desire to go looking for some grads. I expected to find people who were mildy successful and mostly happy with their life. Does this fit any of you?

It fits many of us, however you define sucess.  It does not mean we cannot rational discuss our time in the seed, in either negative or postive terms. We do not need to be successfull to accept or reject the seed, nor do we need to be a failure (whatever that is) to accept or reject the seed.  What in the world would lead you to this conclusion?

I notice none of you who responded to my post attempted to answer any of the questions I posed there. Avoiding something?
Still copping out?

ewwww, yucky seed 'comn down on you' terminology and tactics.  I need a shower!

 :grin:

Seriously, Just what questions do you have. Post them here and I/we will do what we can to answer them. I would appreciate you taking some time to read thru the forum first.  It started with this thread five years ago.

http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... forum=8&34




Neil , you said this...." I had the impression that ?The Seed? wanted me to go out and do my life the best I could. That?s what I?ve tried to do."

And I would say that was a reasonable assumption. However, Did you ever say just drop in on the ole seed in Ft Lauderdale?  I did and they treated me like I was the enemy, as they did many others.  The truth is, once you left the seed, except in rare cases you were seen as "one of them", seedlings weren't allowed to talk to you, and otherwise the seed was suspicious of you.

Benevolent drug rehab/savior or freaky deaky little cult?

I think the answer is obvious.