Author Topic: Spring Creek Lodge  (Read 336655 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline WWFSMD

  • Posts: 124
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://www.venganza.org/
Spring Creek Lodge
« Reply #330 on: January 05, 2006, 08:23:00 AM »
Quote
On 2006-01-05 05:17:00, Anonymous wrote:


Sorry wrong person. I didnt say anything about the drug dealer. I don't know who any of the kids are."



Apologies then.  :smile:   Hard to keep track of the anons.  Pick a username, it'll be easier to keep track of who's saying what.  

Our youth can not understand why society chooses to criminalize a behavior with so little visible ill effect or adverse social impact... These young people have jumped the fence and found no cliff.

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/library/studies/nc/ncmenu.htm' target='_new'>Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
bey your Noodly Master

Emancipate from mental slavery

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Spring Creek Lodge
« Reply #331 on: January 05, 2006, 08:23:00 AM »
Quote
On 2006-01-05 05:07:00, WWFSMD wrote:

"
Quote

On 2006-01-05 05:02:00, Anonymous wrote:


I know for a fact she is no longer reading this site and dose not want to here about it.



I'm sure she doesn't and that's a sad, sad thing.  I'm also quite sure that the program is warning her against listening to the naysayers.  They absolutely cannont STAND to have their methods questioned in any form or fashion.





Quote
It should have been handled different. In a more mature way. "




I'm not sure I understand this.  Handled differently by whom?

Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
-- John F. Kennedy (1917-63), U.S. Democratic politician, president. Speech, 13 March 1962, the White House.

"


There is a lot that happen that has not been typed here. They know. I will not say it because they will try to find some way to justify it or change the subject with a drug his mom used or something. I understand you hate these programs. That is why it is easier to side with them. But there is always 2 sides to every story.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline WWFSMD

  • Posts: 124
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://www.venganza.org/
Spring Creek Lodge
« Reply #332 on: January 05, 2006, 08:33:00 AM »
Quote
On 2006-01-05 05:23:00, Anonymous wrote:


There is a lot that happen that has not been typed here. They know. I will not say it because they will try to find some way to justify it or change the subject with a drug his mom used or something. I understand you hate these programs. That is why it is easier to side with them. But there is always 2 sides to every story."


Yes, there are.  I'm not saying the parents don't have reason to be concerned.  I'm just trying to give insight as to what their solution is really doing.  I don't hate all programs or all people associated with programs.  I think a lot of them believe that they're doing the right thing.  They believe they have the solution, but unfortunately there is no singular solution.  No magic pill, no magic program.   These places generally believe in the Tough Love premise.  It's flawed from the get-go.  From NMHA   http://www.nmha.org/children/justjuv/bootcamp.cfm  Experts agree that a confrontational approach is not appropriate. Most correctional and military experts agree that a confrontational model, employing tactics of intimidation and humiliation, is counterproductive for most youth in the juvenile justice system. The use of this kind of model has led to disturbing incidents of abuse. For youth of color (who represent the vast majority of the juveniles sentenced to boot camps)-as well as for youth with emotional, behavioral, or learning problems-degrading tactics may be particularly inappropriate and potentially damaging. The bullying style and aggressive interactions that characterize the boot camp environment fail to model the pro-social behavior and development of empathy that these youth really need to learn.

Positive changes demonstrated while in the program may not last when a youth returns to his community. Many adult and juvenile offenders sentenced to boot camps report that the program is helpful to them and they feel more positive about their futures. It is unclear, however, whether these attitudinal changes persist after youth leave the boot camp, or whether they are related to actual changes in behavior once a youth returns to his community. Without significant therapeutic intervention while in the program, as well as specialized aftercare following release, boot camp programs have been consistently unsuccessful in "rehabilitating" juvenile or adult offenders.


And, if this kid is at SCL he's got a very good chance of being sent out of the country where US laws can't protect him (not like they really do anything here, but look up CASA and Tranquility Bay, its even worse).
 

When I told the people of Northern Ireland that I was an atheist, a woman in the audience stood up and said, "Yes, but is it the God of the Catholics or the God of the Protestants in whom you don't believe?"  
-- Quentin Crisp

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
bey your Noodly Master

Emancipate from mental slavery

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Spring Creek Lodge
« Reply #333 on: January 05, 2006, 09:11:00 AM »
OF COURSE THESE PARENTS ARE BAD PARENTS. Anyone who thinks otherwise is lying to themselves. They picked one of THE most notoriously abusive programs in the country. They can't plead ignorance forever, if they really cared they would find out. If they've been here then they MUST KNOW there are hundreds of people who went to WWASP facilities and are now greatly harmed by their experience and speak out against WWASP. Why is there a thousand people on myspace talking out against WWASP? WHy is there so many people here talking out about WWASP? This isn't some grand conspiracy as the program would like them to believe, use common sense and see the truth. WWASP is an abusive cult that does nothing but destroy families.

If they weren't bad parents before, they just enrolled themselves in that category by their actions. There is no excuse.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Spring Creek Lodge
« Reply #334 on: January 05, 2006, 09:15:00 AM »
Quote
And, if this kid is at SCL he's got a very good chance of being sent out of the country where US laws can't protect him (not like they really do anything here, but look up CASA and Tranquility Bay, its even worse).


DONT THINK MONTANA LAW WILL PROTECT HIM EITHER. Those of us who were there know what goes on: humiliation, fear and abuse. I love it when people who never spent time in a program as a student tell us we are wrong.  :roll:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline WWFSMD

  • Posts: 124
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://www.venganza.org/
Spring Creek Lodge
« Reply #335 on: January 05, 2006, 09:18:00 AM »
Quote
On 2006-01-05 06:15:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

And, if this kid is at SCL he's got a very good chance of being sent out of the country where US laws can't protect him (not like they really do anything here, but look up CASA and Tranquility Bay, its even worse).



DONT THINK MONTANA LAW WILL PROTECT HIM EITHER.


I don't.  That's why I said "not like they really do anything here", but ya gotta admit that the chances of anything being done is even more remote if the kid is out of the country.

A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows.
http://smack.accesscard.org/index/misc/atheist/' target='_new'>Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
bey your Noodly Master

Emancipate from mental slavery

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Spring Creek Lodge
« Reply #336 on: January 05, 2006, 09:20:00 AM »
Quote
Experts agree that a confrontational approach is not appropriate. Most correctional and military experts agree that a confrontational model, employing tactics of intimidation and humiliation, is counterproductive for most youth in the juvenile justice system. The use of this kind of model has led to disturbing incidents of abuse. For youth of color (who represent the vast majority of the juveniles sentenced to boot camps)-as well as for youth with emotional, behavioral, or learning problems-degrading tactics may be particularly inappropriate and potentially damaging. The bullying style and aggressive interactions that characterize the boot camp environment fail to model the pro-social behavior and development of empathy that these youth really need to learn.

Positive changes demonstrated while in the program may not last when a youth returns to his community. Many adult and juvenile offenders sentenced to boot camps report that the program is helpful to them and they feel more positive about their futures. It is unclear, however, whether these attitudinal changes persist after youth leave the boot camp, or whether they are related to actual changes in behavior once a youth returns to his community. Without significant therapeutic intervention while in the program, as well as specialized aftercare following release, boot camp programs have been consistently unsuccessful in "rehabilitating" juvenile or adult offenders.

Great quote, couldn't of better said it myself!! And this is from the gosh-darn National Mental Health Association.

I found this part interesting too, about the alternative to these programs:

Quote
What is the alternative?

Youth who are involved with the juvenile justice system require an individualized approach that takes their strengths and needs into account. Programs and policies should be family-centered, including the family in all decision making about a child, as well as culturally and developmentally appropriate. Research has shown that small, community-based programs are more effective and less costly than correctional institutions, for the majority of children who come into contact with the juvenile justice system. Rather than removing children from their families and communities, which only increases their difficulties and sense of marginalization, most youth can be managed in their communities while they receive a full range of rehabilitative services, including mental health and substance abuse treatment.


THERE IS NO EXCUSE PARENTS. You are doing exactly what the professionals TELL YOU NOT TO DO. AND, the aftereffects are described quite well, just as all of the people who have been there say.

So tell me this. Is it thousands of us on myspace, god-knows how many on here, the NMHA, countless child-rights/advocate organizations, and many congressman support AT LEAST regulating these places.

And you choose to ignore all of it. All the evidence, first person testimony, everything.  Why? Are this kid's parents lazy? They picked the most visible program on the internet advertising, and went with it? That's what it seems like.

Do you see why I think these people are bad parents??

How could a GOOD PARENT MAKE THIS MISTAKE EVERY MONTH OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER!?!?!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Spring Creek Lodge
« Reply #337 on: January 05, 2006, 09:21:00 AM »
Quote

I don't. That's why I said "not like they really do anything here", but ya gotta admit that the chances of anything being done is even more remote if the kid is out of the country.


Sorry wasn't directing at you, more the parents of the kid, or any other parent thinking of sending their child.  

Yes, the abuse is much more prevelent at the foreign facilities, but it certainly occurs at all the facilities. IF YOU WANT YOUR KID TO BE SAFE, DON'T SEND THEM TO WWASP. <---- best advice you'll receive, and it's free!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline WWFSMD

  • Posts: 124
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://www.venganza.org/
Spring Creek Lodge
« Reply #338 on: January 05, 2006, 09:32:00 AM »
Unfortunately it looks as if the parents are blaming Ashley for all of their son's problems.  That seems to be the main reason for sending him away, at least that's what the parent supporters are saying here.

I don't have enough information to decide whether or not these are "bad parents".  I guess I"m looking at it through both of my parents eyes.  My dad?  Yes, bad parent.  Would not even listen to any criticism of the program much less believe any of it.  My mom on the other hand?  Not a bad parent.  She was railroaded into believing the hype.  They (the program and my dad) scared her to death with the whole 'your kid will end up deadinsaneinjail without us' crap.  She was genuinely worried back then and genuinely feels horrible about it now.  Only time will tell what category Alex's parents fall into.

When we talk to god, it's prayer. When god talks to us, it's schizophrenia.
--Lily Tomlin, American actress

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
bey your Noodly Master

Emancipate from mental slavery

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Spring Creek Lodge
« Reply #339 on: January 05, 2006, 09:33:00 AM »
Quote
On 2006-01-05 06:20:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote
Experts agree that a confrontational approach is not appropriate. Most correctional and military experts agree that a confrontational model, employing tactics of intimidation and humiliation, is counterproductive for most youth in the juvenile justice system. The use of this kind of model has led to disturbing incidents of abuse. For youth of color (who represent the vast majority of the juveniles sentenced to boot camps)-as well as for youth with emotional, behavioral, or learning problems-degrading tactics may be particularly inappropriate and potentially damaging. The bullying style and aggressive interactions that characterize the boot camp environment fail to model the pro-social behavior and development of empathy that these youth really need to learn.



Positive changes demonstrated while in the program may not last when a youth returns to his community. Many adult and juvenile offenders sentenced to boot camps report that the program is helpful to them and they feel more positive about their futures. It is unclear, however, whether these attitudinal changes persist after youth leave the boot camp, or whether they are related to actual changes in behavior once a youth returns to his community. Without significant therapeutic intervention while in the program, as well as specialized aftercare following release, boot camp programs have been consistently unsuccessful in "rehabilitating" juvenile or adult offenders.




Great quote, couldn't of better said it myself!! And this is from the gosh-darn National Mental Health Association.



I found this part interesting too, about the alternative to these programs:



Quote
What is the alternative?



Youth who are involved with the juvenile justice system require an individualized approach that takes their strengths and needs into account. Programs and policies should be family-centered, including the family in all decision making about a child, as well as culturally and developmentally appropriate. Research has shown that small, community-based programs are more effective and less costly than correctional institutions, for the majority of children who come into contact with the juvenile justice system. Rather than removing children from their families and communities, which only increases their difficulties and sense of marginalization, most youth can be managed in their communities while they receive a full range of rehabilitative services, including mental health and substance abuse treatment.



THERE IS NO EXCUSE PARENTS. You are doing exactly what the professionals TELL YOU NOT TO DO. AND, the aftereffects are described quite well, just as all of the people who have been there say.



So tell me this. Is it thousands of us on myspace, god-knows how many on here, the NMHA, countless child-rights/advocate organizations, and many congressman support AT LEAST regulating these places.



And you choose to ignore all of it. All the evidence, first person testimony, everything.  Why? Are this kid's parents lazy? They picked the most visible program on the internet advertising, and went with it? That's what it seems like.



Do you see why I think these people are bad parents??



How could a GOOD PARENT MAKE THIS MISTAKE EVERY MONTH OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER!?!?!"


Two problems with your premise:

NIH report was just that--a report, and not a study. The introduction explains that, and points out that it refers specifically to kids being treated for violence--hardly a characteristic of scl's general population.

NIH report refers to "boot camps." This is a military model, and has little or nothing to do with scl. Kids walk in lines, but the similarity ends there. No drills, physical punishment, humiliation or intimidation tactics--regardless of the lies you read. These kids are in classrooms, for pete's sake. The harshest physical challenge is basketball.

So the NIH report is interesting, but citing it here is akin to citing studies of confused kindergartners to explain the behavior of some of the folks on Fornits.

 :roll:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline WWFSMD

  • Posts: 124
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://www.venganza.org/
Spring Creek Lodge
« Reply #340 on: January 05, 2006, 09:39:00 AM »
Quote
On 2006-01-05 06:33:00, Anonymous wrote:


Two problems with your premise:



NIH report was just that--a report, and not a study.  

NMHA, not NIH.  

Quote
The introduction explains that, and points out that it refers specifically to kids being treated for violence--hardly a characteristic of scl's general population.

You sure about that?



Quote
NIH report refers to "boot camps." This is a military model, and has little or nothing to do with scl. Kids walk in lines, but the similarity ends there. No drills, physical punishment, humiliation or intimidation tactics--regardless of the lies you read. These kids are in classrooms, for pete's sake. The harshest physical challenge is basketball.

What about this?  http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=40#97248  Pictures don't lie.


Quote
So the NIH report is interesting, but citing it here is akin to citing studies of confused kindergartners to explain the behavior of some of the folks on Fornits.


Not really.  The study uses the word bootcamp, but they also refer to confrontational 'therapy'.  Are you seriously suggesting that confrontational therapy is not used at SCL?

We should be careful to get out of an experience only the wisdom that is in it - and stop there;  lest we be like the cat that sits down on a hot stove-lid.  She will never sit down on a hot stove-lid again---and that is well;  but also she will never sit down on a cold one anymore.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/external-search?tag=circlofmiamithem&keyword=mark+twain&mode=books' target='_new'> Mark Twain

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
bey your Noodly Master

Emancipate from mental slavery

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Spring Creek Lodge
« Reply #341 on: January 05, 2006, 11:23:00 AM »
They try to say they tried to inform the parents. First they tried to scare the parents. A day or 2 after he was sent away his moms vehicle tires where slashed the back window broken out, piss poured all over it and fuck you written on the garage door. Ashley's mom says in this forum that Ashley was at work and then home all night. Please! the day Alex went to jail all 4 kids parents thought they were in bed they snuck out. None of the kids parents would have known if he didn't go to jail. So what makes her think she couldn't have snuck out again. Hopefully she knows it could have been her and talked to her about it. But just didn't want to mention it to his family. I highly doubt she stayed up all night watching her. Not to mention the neighbors seen a girl and boy run through there yard to there vehicle parked around the corner. I am sure Ashley is dealing with a lot of feelings herself and being young made a bad choice. It is not unusual. But to an outsider it looks as if her mom approves of these things which would also scare me if these people were my kids friends. I am not sure if I had found out about this site and the bad things people say happen if I would remove my child at this point like you say if you are a parent they give you info that makes it seam as if you are doing the right thing. ( some where getting help or with these people who do bad things and are down right scary to there believes.) you see it all the time on the news someone's boyfriend/girlfriend kills the other ones family or they do it together. If he is on drugs who knows what he may do if convinced or just come up with because of the drugs he was under influence of . I am sorry but that would scare a lot of people. They try to say someone was mad at Alex before he went in ok so they trash his moms car?
I feel it would have went better if at that point the mom said I don't know if she did it but if she did this is probley why Ashley who loves Alex is afraid for him. We have researched this place and a lot of kids now adults who have been there have some really scary stories here is the site please look into it. But instead they start this story put the family down then leave papers on there door step ring the bell and run. They were probley even afraid to open the door.
That is why I say things were handled wrong. Many other things.. they should have tried to sit down with his parents instead of starting this site. Not even they, her mom because realistically Ashley is a kid and has a lot of growing to do. All her mom had to say is he needs love. Please she has known Alex not even his whole family for about 6 months. She has know idea how much love is in the family. They were already dealing with a lot of feelings then these people start saying they don't care about him they just wanted him shipped away so they don't have to deal with him. They never once tried to understand what they were going through. From all this I can see why it is hard to talk to these people. They should have and should think about his feelings. He dose come from a loving family he has lost his way (most kids do) He may not have liked every decision his parents made. (what kid dose) It would be nice if they could all some how sit down and get to know each other  stop blaming each other and get some kind of relationship  I have a strong feeling in a year from now he is going to struggle with wanting his Parents and his girlfriend to make him feel whole. You mention you still struggle with your feeling with your dad. I am sure deep down inside you wish that wasn't an issue. I also believe that would make him very happy to have that when he got out. But after all the crazy shit that was done because of emotions I am afraid that would never happen. I am not trying to beat up on Ashley and her family. This is my opinion and I am aloud to have one. I do understand that you also have feeling about Alex. I just don't feel you are looking at the fact that his parents also do. The fact is that this world has a lot of different personality in it. People may do something different then you, It doesn't make them bad people.


Also all the people on this site who have gone to these schools. I am sorry your experience was so bad, but if people come here looking for info and challenge you at all some may just be looking for answers. It doesn't help when you attack them call them trolls it makes them leave. If you could try to remember this site is to inform people not beat them up. Some are really looking for answers
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline WWFSMD

  • Posts: 124
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://www.venganza.org/
Spring Creek Lodge
« Reply #342 on: January 05, 2006, 11:47:00 AM »
I think you'll find that most people here are not saying that the parents are bad people.  Yes, there may be a few that have done that but that doesn't appear to be the majority.  I was talking about my experiences with programs.  I was also talking about my experiences as a parent of a couple of teens.  Of course I wish this crap wasn't an issue with my father, but that's not my choice...its his.  That's what concerns me about this situation with Alex and his family and why I posted what happened with my family.  Hopefully they won't go through the same thing.

I have no idea of the allegations you speak of as far as Alex's mom's car, leaving notes or whatever so I can't speak to that.

In an ideal world all the people that love and care about Alex would work together, but as long as his parents are involved with a program that isn't likely to happen.....even if Ashley and her family were less abrasive in their actions.  Isolation is the key with these places.  No dissenting opinions allowed, ever.  

There's been some pretty pertinent and useful stuff posted here.  Hope some of it finds its way to Alex's parents so at least they have some idea of what to expect out of that place 'cause SCL sure ain't gonna tell 'em.

You say there is but one way to worship the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it?
--Chief Red Jacket, Seneca Indian Chieftain

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
bey your Noodly Master

Emancipate from mental slavery

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Spring Creek Lodge
« Reply #343 on: January 05, 2006, 11:50:00 AM »
Quote
If you could try to remember this site is to inform people not beat them up.


I didn't realize that was the purpose of this forum, who told you that?

Compliance is not character. Weakness is not strength. Regression is not growth. Toughlove is a hategroup. Time for some straight talk about the Troubled Parent Industry.

This is an uncensored, unmoderated forum where all viewpoints are both welcome and fair game for debate. It's a snap-shot of the Teen Help industry. Some days it's inspiring and heart-warming. Other day's it's pretty damned ugly. Enter at your own risk.

Warning: this website promotes anonymous posting and parent/ program bashing without accountability. Have at it!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Troll Control

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7391
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Spring Creek Lodge
« Reply #344 on: January 05, 2006, 12:08:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-01-05 06:33:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2006-01-05 06:20:00, Anonymous wrote:


"
Quote
Experts agree that a confrontational approach is not appropriate. Most correctional and military experts agree that a confrontational model, employing tactics of intimidation and humiliation, is counterproductive for most youth in the juvenile justice system. The use of this kind of model has led to disturbing incidents of abuse. For youth of color (who represent the vast majority of the juveniles sentenced to boot camps)-as well as for youth with emotional, behavioral, or learning problems-degrading tactics may be particularly inappropriate and potentially damaging. The bullying style and aggressive interactions that characterize the boot camp environment fail to model the pro-social behavior and development of empathy that these youth really need to learn.





Positive changes demonstrated while in the program may not last when a youth returns to his community. Many adult and juvenile offenders sentenced to boot camps report that the program is helpful to them and they feel more positive about their futures. It is unclear, however, whether these attitudinal changes persist after youth leave the boot camp, or whether they are related to actual changes in behavior once a youth returns to his community. Without significant therapeutic intervention while in the program, as well as specialized aftercare following release, boot camp programs have been consistently unsuccessful in "rehabilitating" juvenile or adult offenders.







Great quote, couldn't of better said it myself!! And this is from the gosh-darn National Mental Health Association.





I found this part interesting too, about the alternative to these programs:





Quote
What is the alternative?





Youth who are involved with the juvenile justice system require an individualized approach that takes their strengths and needs into account. Programs and policies should be family-centered, including the family in all decision making about a child, as well as culturally and developmentally appropriate. Research has shown that small, community-based programs are more effective and less costly than correctional institutions, for the majority of children who come into contact with the juvenile justice system. Rather than removing children from their families and communities, which only increases their difficulties and sense of marginalization, most youth can be managed in their communities while they receive a full range of rehabilitative services, including mental health and substance abuse treatment.





THERE IS NO EXCUSE PARENTS. You are doing exactly what the professionals TELL YOU NOT TO DO. AND, the aftereffects are described quite well, just as all of the people who have been there say.





So tell me this. Is it thousands of us on myspace, god-knows how many on here, the NMHA, countless child-rights/advocate organizations, and many congressman support AT LEAST regulating these places.





And you choose to ignore all of it. All the evidence, first person testimony, everything.  Why? Are this kid's parents lazy? They picked the most visible program on the internet advertising, and went with it? That's what it seems like.





Do you see why I think these people are bad parents??





How could a GOOD PARENT MAKE THIS MISTAKE EVERY MONTH OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER!?!?!"




Two problems with your premise:



NIH report was just that--a report, and not a study. The introduction explains that, and points out that it refers specifically to kids being treated for violence--hardly a characteristic of scl's general population.



NIH report refers to "boot camps." This is a military model, and has little or nothing to do with scl. Kids walk in lines, but the similarity ends there. No drills, physical punishment, humiliation or intimidation tactics--regardless of the lies you read. These kids are in classrooms, for pete's sake. The harshest physical challenge is basketball.



So the NIH report is interesting, but citing it here is akin to citing studies of confused kindergartners to explain the behavior of some of the folks on Fornits.



 :roll: "


this is garbage and spin.  go back and look at the NIH data.  it is based on SIX LONGITUDINAL STUDIES and is a compilation of their findings.  

look at the section that refers to RTC's, which SCL is, and you will see that STUDIES done
OVER TIME show that they are at best ineffective, and at worst damaging.

kids at RTC's are exposed to serious criminal juvenile delinquents and often become victims of crime INSIDE the RTC environment at the hands of other juveniles and often by uneducated, untrained staff who have never even had drug or background checks.

I want you to stop spinng and start reading, because you are an ignoramus.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
The Linchpin Link

Whooter - The Most Prolific Troll Fornits Has Ever Seen - The Definitive Links
**********************************************************************************************************
"Looks like a nasty aspentrolius sticci whooterensis infestation you got there, Ms. Fornits.  I\'ll get right to work."

- Troll Control