Author Topic: Spring Creek Lodge  (Read 336319 times)

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Offline CCM girl 1989

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« Reply #945 on: March 02, 2006, 12:18:00 PM »
CIM-

Okay, here is the thing..........we believe that WWASPS do outright lie to parents. Even though you haven't talked to them directly, I'm sure you talk to Alex's parents. It's a trickle down effect. So, what we are saying basically is WWASPS lies to the whole world. They are out to deceive, and do a pretty damn good job of it. The people who have been there, that know exactly what they're all about, are fed up. Not only former students, but their parents. I can't imagine a parent figuring this out, and still having 10-15+ years of writing that check for the monthly payment on the loan they took out to incarcerate their kid(I'm not sure of the percentage of parents that take out the 20 year loan, but I am sure it's pretty high). I have to say overall though the kid got the worse of it.

It sounds to me like Alex's parents feel like they are above the law. It's funny, WWASPS feel like they are too. We'll just see what happens I guess? In the end, the law always wins. Don't forget that. If I were you, I might remind your sister that.
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Offline CCM girl 1989

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« Reply #946 on: March 02, 2006, 12:23:00 PM »
P.S.

Sorry about the   ::unhappy::

It should've been a    ::bangin::

I just get frusterated, it's obvious that Alex deserves to be in a place closer to home, that better suits his needs.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #947 on: March 02, 2006, 01:15:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-03-01 16:35:00, Aunt Shelly wrote:

"I don't know it all.  But I do know things regarding this situation that you don't.  I am 44."


Funny, but that's what my friend's mother said when they sent *her* away to one of these places.

She's out now, and emphatic that it was a horrible misjudgment on the part of her mom to go along with her stepdad and send her there.  She's emphatic that she and everyone else was mistreated there.  She's grateful that people didn't forget her while she was in there, that people told her mother what an idiot she was being to her face, she's grateful that people who knew what really goes on in those places spoke up for her when she was locked away and couldn't speak up for herself.

She's also grateful that she can know her experience helped get at least one other kid rescued by motivating her friends to become aware of the issue and involved in persuading parents of how stupid it is to send their kids to these hellholes.

While she was gone, people were saying, "Yeah, what if she gets out and says it was fine.  She says she's doing just fine now.  She's not going to thank all these people for getting in her business and telling her personal business all over the internet."

Well, it wasn't fine, and she was only saying she was fine because they'd hurt her worse if she didn't and she was *grateful* people didn't forget her and were getting her story out there.  Grateful.

So I've been through this before.  And the place she was sent was a hellhole, but it wasn't nearly as bad a hellhole as the people who've been in Spring Creek say it is.  Her hellhole had no nut to butt walking everywhere, and no hobbit, and better protection from the weather at least most of the time.

Don't kid yourself.  You may not be able to get him out, but the place isn't fine, Alex isn't fine, and the people he's going to be most thankful for when he gets out are Ashley and her mom for kicking up a fuss and not letting him be forgotten while he was gone, and for being a voice for him by proxy while he can't use his own to speak the truth about what is happening to him.

Although, like others, he may or may not be drinking the kool-aid for a little while after he gets out, until he gets confident he's safe and financially independent from his parents and can't be sent back either directly forcibly or by "intervention" manipulations.  Once he's sure he's safe, he's going to be just like I said.

The one thing you could be, and should be, doing differently is depriving the parents of all moral support and sanction for what they're doing.  You should be telling them he's being abused, that keeping him there is a gross error of judgment on their part, and that yes, they are being absolutely horrible parents right now.

You should stand up for Alex even if it has no tangible effect now, because when he gets out, it will mean the world to him that you did.  You should do this even if telling his parents a straight no-shitter and refusing to give them acceptance and moral sanction for their bad acts estranges you from them.

You should be the voice for Alex to tell his parents what they don't want to hear, the things that he *can't* tell him, to be his voice now, while he doesn't have one himself.

That's what you could do, and should do, that you aren't doing, and that's why you're catching crap from everybody here.

You have the power to be his voice to his parents.  You may not see the use in it, but it will mean the world to him when he finds out you did.  It will tangibly help him when he gets out, because it will help to rebuild his trust in the world that not all people are as destructively gullible as his parents.

Kids come out of these places with their trust in their parents' judgment irretrievably shattered.  They also come out with a lot of their trust in the rest of the world shattered, frequently irretrivably, that this kind of thing can happen in the world.

You can speed his recovery from the trauma, once he gets out, by giving him a foundation he can build on to restore his trust in the rest of the world so that he won't think trying to make something of himself is useless, pointless, and doomed to failure.

You can't get him out, but you aren't doing even what you could do, and that's why you deserve a lot of the crap you're catching.

His own voice has been stolen for him.  You could give him back some of what is being stolen by being a voice for him, but for your own selfish reasons of not rocking the boat that much with your sister and brother-in-law, you won't.

As for why you're still here talking to everyone else, that's obvious.  You feel guilty and conflicted for *not* being his voice, like you know you should, so you're seeking moral sanction from us.  You want us to sympathize with you and by sympathizing with you to say that it's okay for you to fail to acknowledge what's being done to him and be a steadfast voice for Alex.

It's not okay.  

Part of what you're doing staying here and talking to us is flagellating yourself over those guilty feelings and wallowing in self pity, because punishing yourself like this is easier than doing the right thing.

You know what you're doing by keeping your mouth shut and only timidly criticizing his parents to their face is wrong, it's cowardly, it's the easy way out.  You know it.

You'd just rather go round and round with us seeking, if not our approval, at least for us to give you some kind of permission for what you're doing by sympathizing with you.

No.

Alex needs you to be his voice to his parents saying that what they're doing is *not* okay, and you're failing him.

That's horrible, and you get no sympathy from me for it.

Go do the right thing, and then I'll be glad to sympathize with you when his parents stop talking to you.

Stop being part of their moral support, even if only lukewarm moral support, for this horrible choice they've made and are continuing to make over and over again every single day when they get up in the morning and decide to leave him there one more day.

You're doing the wrong thing every day you get up and decide not to give your sister a real no-shitter about how rotten she's being.  She may not usually be a rotten person, but she's being one right now.  And every day you don't tell her, you're doing the wrong thing all over again.

No sympathy.

Julie
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #948 on: March 02, 2006, 01:29:00 PM »
Oh, by the way Aunt Shelly, do you know why it matters so much to you that you get the sympathy or at least some understanding from all the survivors here?

It's because they're proxies for Alex for you.  You're seeking their understanding in the hope that *he* will understand and think well of you.

The reason you're now insisting that they aren't so very much like Alex, having been there longer, and that their parents aren't so very much like Alex's parents, is because they aren't giving you that tacit permission to fail Alex like you're doing.

Since they won't give you permission to fail, you're trying to tell yourself that they're not so very much like Alex after all and therefore that their reactions to your behavior are unrepresentative of what Alex would and will think of you.

And all this comes from your guilty conscience because you know you shouldn't be taking the easy way out.  You *know* it's a bad place and know you should be telling your sister and brother-in-law off.  You know you should confront them in no uncertain terms and let them know that *you* have no sympathy for the horrible thing they're doing, and that you will not continue to make excuses for them.

You are enabling their bad behavior, and you know damned well you are, and you feel guilty.  As you should.

You're here because it's the closest you can come to explaining yourself to Alex, and you're distressed because all these people who have been where Alex is now aren't buying your excuses and enabling *you*.

Julie
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Offline CCM girl 1989

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« Reply #949 on: March 02, 2006, 01:53:00 PM »
Dear Julie,

Thanks for stopping by. I'm always impressed with the way you are able to acticulate yourself. I'm obviously getting knowhere with his Aunties, and it's my fault partially, because I am too frusterated. I always enjoy it when you post, because you have a lot of great things to say.


Thanks again!
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #950 on: March 02, 2006, 04:11:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-03-01 19:23:00, Aunt Shelly wrote:

 The only new Alex anyone would like to see is a sober one. Why can't you seem to understand that?


Oh, I do understand it very well. I even tend to think you believe it. But I don't believe it.

Why? Cause WWASP is not in the business of providing substance abuse counseling. That's just not what they do. They don't even bother to employ people educated in substance abuse or to provide the inmates w/ decent reading material on the topic.

Here's a fairly good run down of what they do:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=0#177887

Now, I ask you, why can't you understand that?

If once [the people] become inattentive to the public affairs,
you and I, and Congress and Assemblies, Judges and Governors,
shall all become wolves.  It seems to be the law of our general
nature, in spite of individual exceptions.


http://lfb.com/?stocknumber=FF7485&code=10247' target='_new'>Thomas Jefferson to Edward Carrington, 1787

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Offline Aunt Shelly

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« Reply #951 on: March 02, 2006, 04:14:00 PM »
First, the reason I keep coming here is to be informed.  I find after reading that I must respond to all the really shitty things sad about this family. I find it really hard to keep quiet about all of the misconceptions.  I don't want your sympathy.  I have no idea how you even came up with that one.  Maybe watching too much Oprah.  I also have not one ounce of guilt.  I have done nothing to feel guilty about. I will be here when he comes home and my family will be here for him as usual.  I also don't need a proxy.  I need to see Alex come home and be who he is, but only sober.  I know what Alex thinks of me.  He knows who I am and what I'm made of.   If there is any explaining to do, it will be done with Alex not anybody on this site.  You have no idea what I have done or not done.  How can you?  You don't even know me.  Over the last month I have taken it upon myself to meet with some kids from a few of these schools.  They were not walking zombies or trolls who spout out about how great the schools are.  They were normal teens.  Most were angry about being sent.  Most also understood why they were.  There were many things said about why they didn't like it or why some if it was bullshit.  The most important thing I learned was that they all understood that it saved thier life.  There is not just one side here, there are many.  Think what you like.  I am done posting here.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #952 on: March 02, 2006, 04:19:00 PM »
STEP TO THE LEFT
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #953 on: March 02, 2006, 05:01:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-03-01 21:05:00, CaughtInTheMiddle wrote:

"
Quote

On 2006-03-01 20:36:00, Eudora wrote:


"
Quote


On 2006-03-01 13:50:00, CaughtInTheMiddle wrote:



Gotta love the internet I learned how to read IP's





ORLY! Care to tell me how you're hacking my server to get that confidential info?



I have friends in low places"


And, once again, no respect for the law or ethics.

But, of course, you're probably just full of shit. It's no trivial matter, either technically or legally, to hack into my server.

I do not believe in the immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it.
--Albert Einstein, German-born American physicist

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #954 on: March 02, 2006, 05:10:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-03-01 18:47:00, Aunt Shelly wrote:

""To the aunts, I see you being attacked and I think you are also being a bit immature by swearing at posters. I, too, would want to defend my family. However, you don't have to demean yourself by responding in a similarly childish manner."





I did post that I felt immature.  It's funny when you are pushed how easy it is to regress. "


Think about that statement for a minute.  Now think about it in context of what Alex is going through.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #955 on: March 02, 2006, 05:10:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-03-02 04:38:00, CaughtInTheMiddle wrote:

You only know what they want you to know about her. There is a lot you have know idea about. It isn't my place to put that info here. Nobody would benefit from it. Just as nobody benefited from the things they said about Alex's mom to get your attention. It isn't my place to state some things that really happen. Things she chooses to lie about or chooses not to say. She will have to live with these things. It is between her mom and her, and Alex and her.


So... what changed your mind? Was it that I didn't buy your lies about posting from the library? Or was it when we started checking up on all those far fetched claims you guys made early on in this thread? Go back and read it. Really, it's amazing how much and how little has changed since this conversation started.

The most serious parody I have ever heard was this: In the beginning was nonsense, and the nonsense was with God, and the nonsense was God.
--Freidrich Nietzsche, German philosopher

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Offline CCM girl 1989

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« Reply #956 on: March 02, 2006, 06:47:00 PM »
I have to admit this place smells a little sweeter without those Aunts of his lurking around!
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Offline CaughtInTheMiddle

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« Reply #957 on: March 02, 2006, 07:54:00 PM »
Leslie,
  I wasn't trying to say bad things about you or Ashley I was pointing out that they don't know all of it. Sorry you felt I want you to explain. It really isn't these people business.

If you are happy and willing to take the consequences (should it fale) on how you handle this with Ashley that is great! You know how I feel about that. She is your daughter it is your choice you know her best.

Same goes for Jacki.

Even though I have talked to you a lot I really don't know you. Just like these people don't know Jacki but judge her only on the fact that Alex is at SCL.  

"Ashley was not locked up and forced to confess everything to us."  
She had to it was put there and Alex was coming home. But I am sure you believe it was because of you open communication. That is probably what I would see if it was my daughter. What ever works for you.
You also didn't have people like her boyfriends parents getting overly involved. I do find this strange. I would never I don't really know because I haven't experience it yet but I don't think my daughter would be talking to her boyfriend until he figured things out with his family and could show maturity and progress. Plus I would be 2 busy taking care of her. To get so involved in someone else's family. At least that is how I think I would handle it. I also believe if put on a site of all the things I do know and in hateful content. I could find people to disagree with how you seem to be more of a friend then a parent and how this can back fire on you.

I do wish you and Ashley the best of luck. I don't want to see any teenager screw up their life. I really have nothing against you or her. I understand that people handle things different. I guess I wished you understood also. I know you have only been nice to me to get info on Alex and I am ok with that. I have been doing it more for Alex then anyone.
I guess I am no longer needed for now. We will see how things turn out. Lets just pray that he has figured things out and now clean will continue to move forward.
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Offline Ashley's Mom

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« Reply #958 on: March 02, 2006, 08:13:00 PM »
Pam,

No, you are right.  Ashley had to tell us before Alex came home.  She knew that.  I told you before, I knew she was hiding something from us, and I told you that.  Bottom line is she did tell us.  You even agreed that you knew she must have been scared.    I'm sorry if you feel we are more of a friend to our daughter than parents, but up until this point she has turned out pretty damn good, and we are very proud of her.  I am sure she will continue to do well. I hope all turns out the way you all hope for with Alex.  At one point you were also wanting him out of that place just as much as us.  I don't know what happened over the last couple of days.

I know we have never met, but I thought we were getting somewhere.  I am sorry if you feel I was using you.  Maybe one day, when this has all calmed down, we will meet.  Good luck with your daughter.

Leslie
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Offline CaughtInTheMiddle

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« Reply #959 on: March 02, 2006, 10:28:00 PM »
Yes I did agree and still do that she must have been scared. Like I said I have nothing against either one of you. I also don't care that you are more of a friend with her then parents really I don't like I said what ever works for you. I have a hard time getting my feelings across I guess it seems like what I was trying to say isn't what you heard I am sorry. I guess if I use someone other then you as an example maybe it would sound better.
I guess what I was trying to say was there will always be people that don't agree with the way other people do things you can always find people who think the same thing is good and others think it is bad.  
I re read my post and still haven't figured out why you think all of a sudden I don't want him out. I am very happy he is coming home. I wont see him right away seeing it fell on my vacation. But that is ok he needs time with his parents.
I guess we will see what happens with us. I guess that when you say things like ..Ashley was not locked up and forced to confess everything to us.  It feels like a cheep shot. maybe I am not sure how to take it. I have never told you I felt you were wrong on the way you handled things with Ashley. I have always said it is your choice she is your daughter. I am sure things will work out with her she is a smart kid.
Well I have a bad headache again and my little one is fighting going to sleep and I have to get ready for my vacation. I hope that cleared things up if not we will talk later.
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