Author Topic: Spring Creek Lodge  (Read 340836 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #780 on: February 20, 2006, 02:32:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-02-17 06:13:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2006-02-16 20:57:00, CaughtInTheMiddle wrote:



Who said they were lying to the court? Have you been in court? When is the next hearing? Can you save me a seat please?"






Nope.  Don't need to go to court. Public information.  Click on Case Look-up - its in black and white.  Read for yourself.





http://macombcountymi.gov/circuitcourt/







"


It is down until Tuesday  2-21-06. I did however send out a letter snail mail to the judge. It was 3 pages long, and handwritten (printer is broken!).

I hope everyone is doing there part.
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Offline 69

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« Reply #781 on: February 20, 2006, 04:44:00 PM »
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On 2006-02-17 09:39:00, CaughtInTheMiddle wrote:

"This world is messed up in many ways. All we can do is move on. Realize now that we are adults it is up to us to put the past aside and move forward. "


It would be easier to move on if the systematic mind-fucking would cease, but this is a business that seems to be growing, fast. What's wrong with spending some free time typing about our experiences on the 'net talking to other survivors... is that not moved on enough in your opinion? Take this as example, what if your father would lock you up in the backyard in a small homemade dungeon, fed you limited meals, and kept you in there for 3 days at a time when you misbehaved. He didn't allow any contact with the outside world, no tv, no phone, no newspaper, nothing. Every couple months he'd keep you up for three days with only a few hours sleep each night bombarding you emotionally. First he'd tear you down until you were a crying, pathetic kid just wanting to be loved. Then he would mold you into the child he wanted you to be, and he would "love" you if you acted a certain way. It was unnatural, but at least you got attention from him, and felt like a human being. If you didn't, you'd be locked up in the dungeon, or locked in your room all day and have to write 10,000 word handwritten essays about what you did wrong. After two years of this treatment, he felt you were ready to go outside. But you had to sign a strict contract (aren't contracts for people who don't trust each other?) and if you broke any rule, you'd be put back into the "program" at home, dungeon and all.

Once you reached the age of majority, and left your father's house, I'm sure there would be some lasting negative effects. People in your life might even say "you are an adult now, it's time to move on." Okay -- that's fair enough for someone who hadn't lived through the experience themselves. But, please, imagine -- if you are that child -- and now you know your father has adopted four children from an orphanage overseas. He is now the legal father of these kids. It suddenly becomes a lot harder to ignore doesn't it? Knowing how he treated you, what he had done to you, knowing after all these years you still have nightmares... it would be a lot harder to ignore then... wouldn't you agree?

Now, let's say your 'father' is a group of paid staff members, and your 'home' is a privately run facility in the backwoods of Montana called Spring Creek Lodge. Would this make the story any less horrifying? It shouldn't. But for some people, it does, I'm not sure why. Maybe they trust organizations with fancy brochures, and assume if all the abuse allegations were true, somebody would have already done something about it.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you least expect it.  That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of your unit.
-- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's magazine of preventive maintenance

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #782 on: February 20, 2006, 05:08:00 PM »
I really hope that you wrote the judge on Alex's behalf. Did you?
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Offline CaughtInTheMiddle

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« Reply #783 on: February 20, 2006, 05:53:00 PM »
I haven't read all of your enter yet. I would like to start by saying. I didn't by any way mean to say to stop posting and doing what you are doing. Sorry if it came out that way. Like I said there are probabley a few parents who read all the story's before placing their kids or even after could have very well stopped from putting their kids in or went to get them out. That is great!  :nworthy:

I was talking about the hateful mean things that are said about Alex's parents without really knowing them.
 
When you want to get your child help, you call a teen hotline you get WWASPS phone numbers you call they tell you all the great things that will come out of the program your hopeful, scared, depressed. Because this is the hardest decision you have to make. You have people telling you everything you want to hear. Then you get to this site. Your being put down things are being made up. Your mind is already f*ck*d up. Most people will at this time when it is really needed go to the nicer more understanding people. Isn't that how they get kids in these programs?

I can't even image exactly how I would feel. I use to say I would do this if this happen. Then when it happens I have never done exactly what I thought I would. So I have learned in my life that If/when put in this position I have no idea what I would do. The mind is a mysterious thing
Not all parents look at there kids and say look at you, you are a embarrassment to the family. You are going here to become what I wanted. This is your punishment for not having the personality or values I wanted you to have. You will stay there until you are molded, programmed what ever.

So to say the things that Julie and the Anonymous poster said. All it would do is turn people off. Not take it as serious. It would be more productive if said in a more kinder way at first then tell your story and see what they get from it.

I understand these things happen to all of you and I can't even begin to understand how it makes you feel or how you can't let things go.

I was trying to say if you are trying to reach parents to get their kids out of WWASPS. That is not the productive way to treat a parent looking for answers. I want you to tell people but at least do it so they will listen.

Just as I can't understand what you went through. Or how it would make me feel.  Because I have never been there. I and many others can't imagin what parents are going through and how they feel. Because I have never been in this position. I am sure it would affect you different because of your life experiances.
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Offline CaughtInTheMiddle

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« Reply #784 on: February 20, 2006, 06:28:00 PM »
I have read your story. I think that the things that happen to you were horrible. I am glad that there is a place to learn these things. Where kids/Adults from these programs have a place to talk, and to get the word out. I have agreed with you that kids are being kept locked up to long. That I would not be aloud to lock my kid in a shed in my back yard without being all over the news and put in jail. Everyone seems to over look this!

The problem I am having is that there really is
parents that are not trying to get rid of their kids they are trying to get them back on the right track that are finding these places and it isn't productive for them to be treated that way.

I know it wasn't right for you to be treated the way you were. But they haven't had time to understand it or hear half the stuff before they leave and never come back. Maybe the difference would be how it is delivered to them.

You want them to understand what you are/did go through but you don't care to try and understand what they are going through. To me this is the problem with the communication.

"Saying something like I know it is hard you feel like your loosing your kid that is ok. But please before you do anything else please read these story's before you send or leave your child there. Understand that there are a lot of schools associated with WWASPS. Here are a few tips on finding a better place.....
 
I am not the best at writing or saying all the right things. I can only tell you that this experience for me took longer to get an oppinion on WWASPS program's because I felt like I always had to defend myself of family. Waisted time instead of getting the answers needed. If I was the parent I don't know if in that mind set of emotions going on if I would have stayed long enough to get an opinion.
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Offline BuzzKill

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« Reply #785 on: February 20, 2006, 06:35:00 PM »
I understand what your saying - basically you get more flies with sugar than vinegar. But really, vinegar is better for you.

As for the forums - I'm afraid it is just the nature of the beast that people will be insulted. This is true of even the most gentle and moderated forums. On a forum like this one - you have to expect a few punches to the face - especially if you go aggravating the natives.

There are plenty of sites were you can gather tons of information, with out being burdened by unpleasant verbal attacks. However - if your child is in the program  - you will have to face many an unpleasant truth.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #786 on: February 20, 2006, 08:51:00 PM »
I do understand what you are saying too. If the main purpose of this forum was to attract potential program parents, and then to convince them to not send their kid away, I would agree with everyting you said. However, I do not think that is the intent of most who come here to post, including me. You have to remember only a few parents come by here, and not very often. I come here to converse with other program survivors, not parents. I understand their side of the argument, how they got pulled into WWASPS, etc. I have talked with several program parents and empathize with their position. But to suggest posters coddle parents, because otherwise they will leave prematurely is not something I agree with.

I really have to bite my tongue after reading posts like this, and I notice a pattern with the parents who post here. That is, they seem to want to shift the responsibility away from themsleves regarding sending their child away. They were "duped" by marketers, this forum is too "scary" to stay and read, etcetera. Parents, step up and take some responsibility for your own kid! If a few bad words over the internet scares you away from information so important to the well being of your kid, you need get real and wake up! The kid is locked up being berated with negativity 24/7, and you can't deal with a few baghead trolling comments? Come on, reality check folks. Seriously. These posts make me want to scream, because they lock up the kids in such a horribly negative environment, fornits is a tea party compared to a long stay at SCL. You cannot even begin to compare. So to hear a parent complain about fornits, while their kid is locked up in SCL is disheartening to say the least.

When this thread first began it started to become clear to me Alex wasn't coming home until he turned 18. The parents who are sincere about keeping their kid safe are the ones who spend a day or two on this site reading and asking questions, and then immediatley go and pull thier kid out. They are the parents who are genuinely surprised at what we survivors are saying, they truly were in the dark. But a family who has kept a kid locked up for months now, still claiming if this forum was just a little bit nicer to them, then maybe he would come home is a complete fallacy. And a waste of a lot of people's time.
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Offline 69

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« Reply #787 on: February 20, 2006, 08:51:00 PM »
I do understand what you are saying too. If the main purpose of this forum was to attract potential program parents, and then to convince them to not send their kid away, I would agree with everyting you said. However, I do not think that is the intent of most who come here to post, including me. You have to remember only a few parents come by here, and not very often. I come here to converse with other program survivors, not parents. I understand their side of the argument, how they got pulled into WWASPS, etc. I have talked with several program parents and empathize with their position. But to suggest posters coddle parents, because otherwise they will leave prematurely is not something I agree with.

I really have to bite my tongue after reading posts like this, and I notice a pattern with the parents who post here. That is, they seem to want to shift the responsibility away from themsleves regarding sending their child away. They were "duped" by marketers, this forum is too "scary" to stay and read, etcetera. Parents, step up and take some responsibility for your own kid! If a few bad words over the internet scares you away from information so important to the well being of your kid, you need get real and wake up! The kid is locked up being berated with negativity 24/7, and you can't deal with a few baghead trolling comments? Come on, reality check folks. Seriously. These posts make me want to scream, because they lock up the kids in such a horribly negative environment, fornits is a tea party compared to a long stay at SCL. You cannot even begin to compare. So to hear a parent complain about fornits, while their kid is locked up in SCL is disheartening to say the least.

When this thread first began it started to become clear to me Alex wasn't coming home until he turned 18. The parents who are sincere about keeping their kid safe are the ones who spend a day or two on this site reading and asking questions, and then immediatley go and pull thier kid out. They are the parents who are genuinely surprised at what we survivors are saying, they truly were in the dark. But a family who has kept a kid locked up for months now, still claiming if this forum was just a little bit nicer to them, then maybe he would come home is a complete fallacy. And a waste of a lot of people's time.

In questions of power, then, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution."

--Thomas Jefferson 1798

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Offline 69

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« Reply #788 on: February 20, 2006, 08:52:00 PM »
'Twas me, forgot to sign in.

To regard Christ as God, and to pray to him, are to my mind the greatest possible sacrilege.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #789 on: February 20, 2006, 09:26:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-02-20 17:51:00, Anonymous wrote:

I really have to bite my tongue after reading posts like this, and I notice a pattern with the parents who post here. That is, they seem to want to shift the responsibility away from themsleves regarding sending their child away. They were "duped" by marketers, this forum is too "scary" to stay and read, etcetera.


Well, you're not wrong. And, of course, I'd still have you over for dinner if my daughter were single and looking. :wink:

But there's something to the bit about the industry duping parents. But it's not just the active players in the industry. It runs much deeper. Social commentators like Mike Males have a good deal to say about why Americans, particularly, fear their own children and fear for them. Other researchers, like Asch talk about the stealthy power of peer pressure, even on adults.

Then there's the Stanford experiment, well they couldn't even complete it because the researchers were fond the effects of that environment on the subjects as well as on themselves as observers so deeply disturbing. That has a lot to do with it. The reason why the staff, edcons and parents are so convincing is that they believe in what they're selling, just like the coke dealer I used to know.

Point is, there is a pervasive false perception of kids as a dangerous, dead end generation of social monsters that leaves the relatively normal anxieties of past generations of parents in the dust. And the TOUGHLOVE Hategroup has a huge following of impressive, pillar of society type people. It's pretty compelling, and yet entirely misguided.

People do need to understand this. It's worth discussing.

Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following
pages, are not yet sufficiently fashionable to procure them
general favor; a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong,
gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises
at first a formidable outcry in defence of custom.  But the
tumult soon subsides.  Time makes more converts than reason.
Why I Live at the PO[ This Message was edited by: Eudora on 2006-02-20 18:29 ]
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Offline CaughtInTheMiddle

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« Reply #790 on: February 20, 2006, 09:51:00 PM »
"Coddle the parents." I knew that was exactly where someone would take it. It kills me how many times I have said this... I DO NOT HAVE A CHILD IN WWASPS PROGRAM! So the parents are not complaining. I am !!!! I didn't relize this was just a forum for everyone to complain or talk or what ever. I thought this was a forum to inform people. If you were serious about getting your word out maybe taking some criticism would help. So go back to normal talking to each other reaching nobody but the x students that will get the program's closed real quick. Good luck on everyone journey.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #791 on: February 20, 2006, 10:05:00 PM »
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I didn't relize this was just a forum for everyone to complain or talk or what ever.


from the front page:


This is an uncensored, unmoderated forum where all viewpoints are both welcome and fair game for debate. It's a snap-shot of the Teen Help industry. Some days it's inspiring and heart-warming. Other day's it's pretty damned ugly. Enter at your own risk.

Warning: this website promotes anonymous posting and parent/ program bashing without accountability. Have at it!
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Offline 69

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« Reply #792 on: February 20, 2006, 10:16:00 PM »
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On 2006-02-20 18:51:00, CaughtInTheMiddle wrote:

""Coddle the parents." I knew that was exactly where someone would take it. It kills me how many times I have said this... I DO NOT HAVE A CHILD IN WWASPS PROGRAM! So the parents are not complaining. I am !!!! I didn't relize this was just a forum for everyone to complain or talk or what ever. I thought this was a forum to inform people. If you were serious about getting your word out maybe taking some criticism would help. So go back to normal talking to each other reaching nobody but the x students that will get the program's closed real quick. Good luck on everyone journey."


There is over 800 posts in this thread, have you not been thoroughly informed? It's obvious many people are serious about getting the word out. This thread contains more infromation than any one could ask for about SCL and the risks and dangers of the program. If you are offended by a couple nameless anons rude remarks and want to leave, that is your loss. We've all had to deal with it on this forum.

What makes you think programs will ever be closed if parents can be presented with 800 posts of information showing that this program is abusive, ineffective and damaging and still nothing is done? What does that say? It's not about a lack of information.

When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.
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Anonymous . . . for obvious reasons

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Offline CaughtInTheMiddle

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« Reply #793 on: February 20, 2006, 10:45:00 PM »
AGAIN... NOT A PROGRAM PARENT AND HAVE NO INTENTIONS ON BECOMING ONE!!!
GOOD LUCK TO ALL AND THANK YOU FOR THE INFORMATION GIVEN.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #794 on: February 20, 2006, 11:32:00 PM »
I probably wouldn't say I'm grateful for my time spent there at all - but I don't regret it. If I hadn't been there I woulda gotten worse and worse - I even relapsed after the program but not on any of my problem drugs - I still say away from them. It helped me realize that I am not invinceable and bad things can happen to me. I had no concept of that as a teen. Also - the ability to be blatantly honest with my mom and work out our problems is something I am definitely grateful for. Before getting arrested and being sent to SCL I hadn't spoken to my mom in almost a year. We had a really bad falling out. I was in a bad situation in general and I never would've gotten out without something to help me realize that. I don't agree with everything they do at all, and I often worry that I am permenantly messed up by those seminars, but I had no sense of self worth or dignity before going there and I attribute that positive change to the program.
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