Growing Together of Lake Worth, Florida

[Antigen]

Info on Growing Together Greetings Blopa, and welcome,


We don't hear much, either good or bad, out of Growing Together these days. Here are some
http://fornits.com/anonanon/peaars.cgi?fetch=13&found=379:342:196:1:7:8:9:10:11:12:13'>News Items on Growing Together from the archive. For some reason the `97 incident didn't make the papers. But I did see the police report. It seems that this rape was a part of a hazing ritual. Staff almost certainly knew about it and certainly should have known. But the child wound up being charged with the crime and staff just pretended that nothing like that had ever happened before or since. Call my a cynic, but I have a hard time believing that.


We know that the folks at GT are paying close attention to what we're doing. But they're not talking to us at all. Ususally, when we focus on one of these places, at least a few people will respond either in support of the place or with complaints. That hasn't happened with GT at all so far. The only information we have on GT comes from actual law suits. Very, very strange!


If I were you, I'd absolutely insist on direct and frequent contact with my son. That's almost an acid test. Anyone tells you that it's therapeutic to isolate an adolescent, even from his mother, is hiding something. Odds are they're hiding the same things they were hiding under the names Straight and LIFE.


You know the old joke:


"How many shrinks does it take to change a lightbulb?"


"Only one, but the lightbulb has to want to change."


That's not completely correct. You can force someone to change against their own will by breaking their will. That is the core method of the Program if GT is still working the same way. And, again, not one soul has come along to suggest otherwise.


So I can't give you absolute proof that GT is still abusing kids. But I can't give you any assurance that they're not, either. Because of what I know about GT's lineage, that's one of the last places on Earth I'd put anyone I love.


If you wander around some of these forums, you'll find that most of us regard this type of high-pressure, confrontational group therapy as worthless and harmful. Even among those who regard their experience as having been helpful most of them attribute that to simply having been removed from a bad situation; change of set and setting.


If you're not able to contact your son without withdrawing him from the Program, withdraw him. Take him camping, on a tour of france, walk the AT or something. Give him a change of setting, more time to think, less opportunity to go wrong for awhile.


And do let us know how it goes.

[FaceKhan]

Get him out I had not read the earlier post before my response in the other topic.


Definitely get him out, in fact don't send him to any program in Florida or Texas, because the Bush's faith-based initiatives have made the teen rehab ( brainwashing and abuse) industry in those states virtually self-regulating which means that the school administrators many of them religious extremists set their own policies and state child welfare agencies cannot even inspect them anymore.  

[Blopa]

Re: Get him out I started this Topic asking for 'factual' info about GT. The fact that one kid once accused them of abuse does not appear to be conclusive that anything bad actually happens there. You see, we did not take my son there simply to get him out of our lives, we went to GT desperate looking for a solution, after other programs gave up on him. My son has been there for only a month and I saw things that I frankly do not understand (some really look ridiculous) but they do not seem 'bad' per se. I just read so much criticism (some very, very heavy) about these programs, that it made me wonder and I am seeking more informatioin. I wish I could also hear from 'success stories', of 7 stepers that completed and graduated the programs, but I don't know where to find them. I don't condone any form of humiliation, torture of brainwashing. Now: how do you deal (successfully) with the problems of drug use, terrible behavior, law breaking, lack of motivation, liying, stealing, etc.? Does anybody have an alternative that actually works? Sorry to ask, but, do we hear in this forum just the voices of people that failed in the program and are resentful as a result? I read hear some truly hear drenching stories that I am sure are legitimate and honest experiences of many; are there success stories to? How are the lifes of those that left those programs in disgust? Are you OK now, drug and crime free, etc.? If my questions seem to naive I am sorry, I am truly tring to find a solution for my son (an mine) problem. I am not a prude, moralist, or any crap like that, but I do have to address my son's problems with a realistic solution that will work. I appreciate any help anyone can give us.

[Antigen]

More than allegations Check again, please. I gave you a link to some old news items that tell the tale of successful lawsuits and Ken (who was a proud graduate of Straight, Cincinatti for some years) gave you some info on a more recent criminal conviction (not just an allegation, a conviction... though in my opinion it landed on the wrong party)


No, we're not all a bunch of program failures. When I left Straight, Sarasota in `82 I was on 5th phase, pretraining for staff. Many, if not most of the people who post to this forum are graduates and/or former staff or parents. Most of us are doing alright, though a few have come through here who aren't alright at all.

There are very real and sometimes longterm side effects from the isolation, humiliation and pressure tactic used in these programs. If you're not comfortable with the way they're treating the parents, please know that your son is getting it in spades and has no escape, not even a moment of privacy to reflect.


Right now, you have more factual information about what's going on at GT right now than any of us. Not to put too fine a point on it, I know you're in a tough situation and trying your best to do what's right, but I'd like for you to examine the way you're staging the question.

Apparently you're unable to speak with your son or you wouldn't be asking strangers what's going on inside GT. Is that correct? And, instead of asking if any of us have any reason to believe you should be concerned, you seem to be asking whether or not any of us has absolute proof that something is wrong.


In essence, you've turned your son over to total strangers; never even having met with anyone who's completed the program; you don't seem to have any reason to believe that they're not abusing him and you do have ample reason to believe that these same people have abused children in the past.


Mm. or sir, I cannot give you absolute proof that they're doing bad things to your son in there. But I'd get him the hell out of there if I were you just on what you've got so far.


As for what to do next, almost anything is better than abandonment. I know you don't see it that way. The Program staff is probably giving you all kinds of strokes for being such a good parent, paying all the money, attending meetings, dealing with the anguish of not being able to see your son or know that he's safe.


But if GT today is anything at all like they were in the past and like all of the other programs run by the same affiliated people (and I have no reason to believe otherwise), they're telling him just exactly that; your parents don't want you or they wouldn't have brought you here, they wouldn't believe you even if you did tell them what we're doing to you. This is very often true. I'd bet dollars to donoughts they're telling you that you aren't capable of knowing whether or not your son, who you've known and loved all these years, is lying to you. They tell you they have 'special awareness' in dealing with teenagers (asif teenagers were some kind of wild animal and not just young people) and that only they can determine when he's telling the truth. (i.e. when he breaks down and supports their story on any particular point)


All of these bad behaviors you attribute to your son are very definitely cause for concern. But none of them are new to this generation. What did people do with wayward kids for the past couple of hundred generations? Send them to a different environment (boarding school, rural relatives, whatever); keep them busy with various activities; encourage them to do something better, different; let them fall down (but don't cause them to!) and then be there to support them and give direction when they realize they've messed up and ask for help....


There is no simple solution to raising kids no matter how much money and commitment the Program coaxes out of you. If things seem fishy to you for some reason after a month, trust your gut. Like so many other kids, your son will probably learn from his mistakes and outgrow his wild ways even without any help. But it's a lot easier to get situated in life when you have family to depend on.

[Elle]

Caution In my opinion, even if it was an allegation, parents need to be weary of what a treatment center did that was so bad, it made a youth report go to such lengths of lying to the athorities.


Since leaving the abusive center I was in, I've gone on to accomplish plenty of great things, and am not on drugs. However, I am very bitter against abusive centers and cults, because of the pain that has been caused to me.


The defiancy in your teen may one day be his greatest quality. Love the fact that he's got determination and individuality, even if he may be aiming it in the wrong directions.


Good luck,


            Elle.  

[ramprato]

Take off the blinders before it's too late......... Ok, like Ginger was saying I was in Straight Cincinnati, I was put in there 19 years ago Oct 16th, 1982, a year or so before junior was born and I haven't had a substance since. I "graduated" from there and went on with my life trial and error like everybody else. The only difference was that I was contacted by a former Straight Parent whose kid got abused terribly and will have to be in special care for the rest of his life because of the type of "therapy" he received.


This man did his homework and educated me how Straight Inc. and its spin-offs destroyed thousands of families and made millions at it. I already provided you with his link in my last post to you, I will add that everything he wrote down in that website can be backed up with legitimate sources. I found out by reading up on all these sites that I was experiencing PTSD in the ways of nightmares, flashbacks, depression, and unnecessary guilt for starts. I blamed myself for everything that was ever wrong with my family. That's is what those so-called "therapeutic" places teach. They make YOU the parent faultless and stick all the blame in the world on your kid. That's a hell of an incentive to keep your kid there. They tell you your kid is manipulative and label him a "druggie", when all the time they are the true manipulators and have had literally 30 years in its current state to perfect to work the most to their advantage.


In one ear and out the other??? Now frankly, I don't suffer one bit no matter what you decide to do, the damage done to me all those years ago is done, I am only doing this for your kid, trying to save at least one person from experiencing what I did by simply telling you the truth. Verbal abuse is the worst form, your kid can not have any privacy and therefore can not escape it, because it is drilled in him from the early morning when he wakes up, till late at night when he goes to bed, no brakes from it ever, this is BRAINWASHING. They will tell him how worthless he is, how he screwed everybody over. Over and over again he will hear these statements they continually made in his mind until he actually believes it himself. he will lose reasoning ability because of this, you will become blameless and he will become blameful in his mind. Essentially you are allowing them to intervene in his natural ability to make mistakes on his own and learn from them as part of becoming an adult. If you allow them to manipulate you daily (as they will do) to keep you kid in there telling you he will be dead without them, then that's on you, consider yourself warned, you have to live with falling prey to their manipulation of your family situation, and you have to live with the decision you make of what you do about it, not me.  


How are those parent group discussions these days? I agree with Ginger, I bet they are leaving you alone now, just give it a little time, soon you will be confronted for even questioning them at GT by having the audacity to talk to us heathens. I think your trying to make yourself "right" no matter what you came on telling us all these things wrong with your son, nothing about what was wrong with you, or others in your family that contributed to dysfunction, it was ALL him, Ok, sure.


If I seem impassioned about this topic, good, I have seen a lot in these last 19 years most of those who were on staff telling me what to do without question are back using drugs, so much for that once boasted 75% success rate they were promoting all those years ago. Some are dead. Some are getting along OK, but are in therapy, wonder why they need therapy? Some are drinking, some aren't, a lot still believe they have drug problems, maybe some really did, but does that mean that everybody that went in there had a "problem", or were the majority of people in there from upper income families that afford to be there and pay the high price.


Oh yeah, why don't I use? I take a bit of medicine now and then and a good adult decision would be not to use any substance while taking medicine, you want the best healing advantage you can get, so how about that, an adult choice has been made without the "help" of Straight Inc., or GT.

[2dogs2]

Quick fix  Hey if you are looking to keep your kid off drugs for a while ,you have got him somewhere where he can't get any. Good.  Now are you prepared to to see your child with problems for the rest of his life!  They may not be very big problems but he will have some, Even now the damage is being done. Or they could be huge problems, some former clients of "Straight based" programs have commited suicide because they could not get this crap out of there heads.  I , myself was there once.  

  I graduated from Straight Inc. in Dec. 1987 and it was one of the proudest days of my life. I hugged my Mom and Dad and brothers and sister. And set out on my new life that was going to take me so far.........  

   It was only a couple of days after I got out that I started getting scared.  Everybody in the "real" world was saying and doing things that I couldn't understand. 'Bad "things. Even other people that were clean & sober.  I was all alone. The only people that I could talk to were inside and I was not aloud to see them anymore.

   You see , This type of theropy takes away all reality and I mean all of it. And replaces it with a "group conscience". It really works for most.  For people , like your son,  who have a twisted sense of reality , it will replace that with a bunch of crap that works great inside the program for moving along sucsessfully and feeling good(?). He will probably even tell you he likes it and believe it himself, I did. But none of these programs ever explain to their clients that when they get out that all of the stuff they have learned is worthless on the outside when there IS no group!  

   No offense but you sound like you too are struggling with a little something. Maybe all your kid needs is to know that it's not his fault. You probably screwed your kid up ,you probably alread know this but if you got your kid out and told him how you feel about this (failing as a parent) he may not need another bit of help ...ever!   I'm really not trying to be mean by saying this. I wish this could have been the story with me. First word is the only one that is hard to say , the rest are easy. One word.  

   If you get him out you should skip town right from the place and got somewhere where there are NO distractions. I hope this helps. I don't claim to be right , This is just what I think....  Good luck, To both of you........2-dogs

[LESTAT49203]

Re: Growing Together of Lake Worth, FloridaI had to chuckle to myself when I read that part of your post that said you wanted to hear the success storyies from the 7 Steppers, or maybe Staff from Straight.  Sorry but I don't think there are very many that will contribute there success to Straight.  Thats what these guys have been trying to tell you all along.  Well if it make's you feel better hearing it from a 7 Stepped Staff member of the old program than here it goes.  I was molded and twisted by the program, just like everyone else is trying to describe.  We all were forced threw countless nights of sleep deprivation, so called postive peer pressure which consisted of restraining clients on the floor till they went along with the program's rules. etc. etc.  I never was able to take a good look at it till after I left staff to get married.  It was then I was able to sit back and take a good long look at what had actualy happened to me while I was there.  And what was happening to others still.  If you want an honest opinion from someone that was there, Straight, and Straight like programs have always been very abusive.  Read some of the stories on this board if you realy want to know what those place's are like.  I haven't seen one lie or exageration on it the whole time Ive been here.  Sorry I dont know of any better treatment for your boy.  I know its a hard place to be in.  I would suggest letting him take his lumps as a young adolesent, rather than put him in a place like that.  Everyone of us still ended up having to take our lumps anyway once we got out and had to start dealing with the real world again.  Don't send him to a mental prison to keep him from going to jail.   Cincy84

[Blopa]

Re: Growing Together of Lake Worth, Florida Thank you all for your info, comments and concerns regarding the issue I brought up. I believe you and know that you have been traumatized and abused by those programs. Since I posted the initial message I did quite a bit of research into the specific program where my son is. There are many differences between what you honestly describe and GT and I think I made the mistake of 'guessing' early on that GT was a Straight or Straight-like program. I had the chance to talk to my son one on one and all his  complaints where that he is not allowed to smoke cigarettes, that he does not like the food (he put 15 pounds and 2 pants sizes), that one night he was not allowed to bathe and wash his clothes because his oldcomer was tired and that he had no privacy while on the bathroom. He did not complaint of being sat on, being deprived of sleep, put on pbj diets, insulted and humiliated or any of the abuses I see reported on these postings. I spent time in one of the foster houses with 3 clients and their 'parents' and I saw first hand how they all related, I had time to play boardgames and chat at length with the clients. The kids had at all times the right to use the phone and call police if they wanted to, the program bedroom had an alarm but not a lock as they were not locked in. They had a very good second full meal (as the first dinner was served to them at GT before departing). I am not making this up, I have no affiliation or interest whatsoever in defending TG, this is the true observations that we (my wife and I) made.  I avoid mentioning here that I actually 'like' a lot of the parents and staff as it is a very subjective and personal taste and I could be mislead by it. Again, maybe my mistake was to believe that this program was similar to what you all suffer through, but it does not look that way. If I ever get a different impression or experience I will post it as I can't possible condone abuse of any kind.  Also GT has been open for over 15 years and presumably hundreds if not thousands of kids: we would see a lot more bad rap about 'them' in the net. I looked hard and all I saw was the opinion of one judge and one psychologist, nothing more. Compare that with all the postings here relating to these other places.  At this point most everything I saw and heard about GT (not Straight) tells me that this is a good program and they do not torture or abuse kids in any way.  I don't doubt that your experiences are real but they relate to other programs as far as I can tell, not GT.  That is my believe at this point, if anything changes I will make sure I come back.  Thank you all very much for your help and interest.

Edited by: Blopa at: 10/21/01 7:15:52 am

[ramprato]

Blinders still on I see......... "I believe you and know that you have been traumatized and abused by those programs", Those programs?, um those programs you refer to are the pre-GT:


(Look carefully, you will see "Growing Together" on this chart how it was formed from Straight Inc.)

www.ex-cult.org/General/s...conditions


"GT has been open for over 15 years and presumably hundreds if not thousands of kids: we would see a lot more bad rap about 'them' in the net. I looked hard and all I saw was the opinion of one judge and one psychologist, nothing more." My God, what do you need to get this?, an atom bomb to drop on your head, they have been to the courts for ABUSE, a leopard doesn't change its spots, it just pays off its accusers. They, like Straight settled out of court in order to stay open and continue RAPING MINDS for profit. 15 years ago, Straight started closing down their centers across the country, the process took about 5 years, they were close down for what? ABUSE. But there was money to be made so individuals formerly involved with Straight, reopened up with different names using the same MIND RAPIST tactics.


Do you think we are PAID to be here giving out to you like this? This is a place for us, that were abused to get together and finally be able to talk about it amongst ourselves, and during all this, we come to realize that these places still exist, and we want to save each and every kid out there from experiencing what we did so they can at least attempt to grow from their experiences without having their minds turned to JELLY.


Blinders still on I see. That's OK, become guiltless, walk on water, that makes it easier, let that poor kid take the blame for everything and see what you get out of a son in 15 or 20 years, So he isn't perfect, he yells back, he boozes with friends or whatever, did you ever think he was just trying to reach out in his own way??? You obviously have a couple of bucks, money can even buy your kid a drug problem, what a country! Too bad now that your kid is behind a kind of Berlin wall where you are unable to communicate when you and him need it most...


When you get a shell shocked son back, here is a note of encouragement, he will always have these websites to come to, thank you for helping to turn out a new generation of Stefford Zombies.....Think about it please.

[LESTAT49203]

Re: Father knows best For your son's sake, I hope your right.  Best of luck to both of you.  

[Antigen]

Fifteen year trigger Up until a couple of years ago, there wasn't anything permanent, indepth or well used on the net about Straight, Inc. This in spite of the many lawsuites, investigations, books and so forth.


Now, all of a sudden, there are sites springing up all over the place. And if you look into the material on the nature of thought reform, you'll find that it takes just about 15 years for most people to 'snap' out of it completely.


I'll tell ya'll a little secret. I called GT posing as a parent concerned about a troubled teen. They actually said 'we have a lot of experience dealing with teenagers. They can't manipulate us like they can their parents, we know just how they think.'


But just remember, only 4 years ago a young boy was gang raped by a group of other boys in a foster home during a hazing ritual called 'the Naked Crusader.' I have to wonder if that's still going on. And, not to put too fine a point on it, but under Florida law, if you have cause to suspectchild abuse and fail to intervene, you can be charged as an accessory to the crime.


If you really believe that dog and pony show, I guess you'll fall for anything. Good luck and I pray for your son and all the other kids in Group.

[Elle]

silent Some places are more calmed down than The Straights or Kids of America, so it really is harder for parents to see what their kid is going through. The place that I was in (Alberta Adolecent Recovery Centre) is a Straight spin off. We learned very quickly how to make the parents think that we are doing okay, because if we didn't we would be in quite a bit of trouble, and only kept there for one more week at least. Physical abuse and restraining didn't happen during open meetings where everyone could see. They didn't happen every day. The thing is, that even if they didn't happen at all, those things are the least harmful bit. It's the programming of your mind in order to become more pleasing to society that kills you. Having to make emotional or sexual confessions in order to see yourself as sick, in order to make you think you have to behave as the others in order to recover. Not allowing time alone is a form of abuse. It is one of the key ingredients for brain washing. Those group or "rap" sessions that all of us had gone through are extremely popular in cults. They look like modern day therapy, but in excess they become ways to achieve altered states.


No, there shouldn't be more reports just because it's been open for so long. One reason for that, because kids feel ashamed. They don't know if they really are bad kids for disagreeing, because in the center they weren't allowed to disagree.


Another reason is that usually these centres make friends with Judges, make friends with the police, make friends with social services, make friends with all the other resources available where kids could turn too. Trust me, I have been trying to get my story heard for years now. Some people don't want the centre taken away because it succesfully gets rid of kids who have been in and out of prison, and others won't help because they are afraid of the controversy. I know of many peopel with the authority to close the place down who are aware of sexual, physical, and emotional abuse, but they won't do it.


There are plenty of treatment centres out there where you can sit down with yoru son and talk for a few hours a week, and where he can have intense positive therapy. Not all relaxed treatment centres aren't doing there job.


           Elle.

[Antigen]

Dear old uncle Joe Ya' know, this reminds me of the sad tale of my dearly departed great uncle Joe. It was just prior to prohibition and he had a job cleaning up at the brewery. One day, he fell into a full beer vat. Uncle Jim and Uncle Thom were there. They dove in and tried to fish him out, but he fought `em off and subsequently drowned.


Blopa, I heard it through the grape vine that you have far more concrete evidence of abuse than just the Program's lineage. If you fail to protect your son at this point, there's no going back. He may forgive you one day, but he'll never ever trust you again.  

[Blopa]

Re: Dear old uncle Joe Thank you very much all for your interest in helping my son and I. I am not in anyway downplaying what you been through (and still are) and I know you do not have any secret agenda as you have nothing to win or lose by sharing on your traumatic experience.  After clearly establishing that I will discuss the present situation that started this Topic. The first thing that comes to mind is that several of the most openly troubling practices of Straight are absent on the practice at GT: special diet, food and sleep deprivation, isolation (not access to Children and Family or police by phone), kids locked with key on bedrooms. Those I know to be true as I saw first hand while fostering out (visiting host family houses with the kids there). Other things I was told by kids and parents is that they do not sit on kids, they are never locked alone, they are not insulted, spited at or humiliated screaming at their faces, etc.


Another issue, central to the big picture, is the brain washing. In principle, I am personally against all forms of brain washing. The caveat is that my son (and probably most people with self-destructive behavior) have already been brain washed and that is why they are actively seeking to kill themselves (and others) by abusing drugs, breathing AC gases (freon?) and other toxics that are known to destroy brain cells and terminate their lives at different paces. Or by driving at very fast speed while high or drunk, etc.


So the starting point of this treatment is not a happy Kids that is having a safe life. We started with a kid that was way on his way to kill himself and maybe others. We did not chose to disrupt a life, our aim is to get him to stop killing himself.  Now, it is not an easy job to have someone abandon his most precious and valued beliefs: the entire drug culture, self mutilation and destruction, complete contempt for all the rules (right or wrong) that make his existence in the community possible, his absolute repudiation for any advice or even possibility of having a normal life (work, earn a living, stay sober and do whatever you chose to do with your life within the boundaries of the law).


How do you change all that without washing the Kid's mind?  I am speaking from my mind and for myself as no one in any of the treatment centers we visited (including GT) ever admitting to resorting to brain washing. But I think that some sort of serious re-programming of the mind (aka brain washing) would have to take place to make such a radical change in someone concepts, thinking process, feeling process, etc. I know that simply talking to that person does not suffice. We tried that, we used psychologists, psychiatrists, medication, outpatient therapy, church, gifts, contracts, treats, you names.  While doing all these, our son kept running in the opposite direction at an increased speed, doing more drugs, hanging out with very dangerous characters, getting in fights, cursing and screaming at us, breaking things, closing his mind more and more.


I do not think that we could just sit on the side hoping that he will get better by himself, as he was going to kill himself, possible others including us. It was impossible to talk with him about anything. He was deeply sad, even suicidal. He was stealing from us.  This is the scene in most homes of troubled teenagers of the other parents we spoke with.  So, with all honesty, what is there to do for a parent in this predicament?  Is easy to blame the medicine at hand, but is there any other REALISTIC medicine?  As ugly as it sounds, I think that you have to de-program and re-program the patient's mind to get them out of that rut. It sounds horrible, but what is the REALISTIC alternative. The person in on an accelerated path of self-destruction as thousands do die every year from this disease, drug abuse, suicide, etc.  Talking won't do it since he would not listen,  therapy as outpatient did not work either. Eckerd Youth Alternatives worked, but for a year or so. COPAC threw him out. La Amistad was a mad-house that he hated. South Miami Drug Rehab Center could not work with him. What else to try? Do I give up on him? And he is not seating still waiting for us to find a good solution, he is trying to kill himself with the drug use, etc. while we think and consider the alternatives. What will you do in such a case?


He will have to unlearn a lot of crap he learned, change his taste in music, friends, thought process, motivation, decency, etc. How in the world do you achieve all that?


I wish there was a pill he could take and get well, a book he could read or some magic words that someone can spell and make such fundamental changes as he needs to make to stay alive.  Short of that, I think that some serious reprogramming of the mind would have to take place and I am surely no expert to judge and decide what it would entail.  In the meantime I am glad he is safe and seems to be making progress.  


Worse case, if he survives this treatment and will take him (as you say) 15 years to get right again, that implies that we will be alive 15 years from now, and that is good news. It certainly beats the alternative.


Those are my considerations at this time.


Regarding allegations of abuse (I just read your posting), no, I do not have anything more than allegations and it will be very easy to convince me otherwise: I you know any case that resulted on a conviction against GT, and you care to, please give me the case number, decision on the case, judge,etc. I will research such case/cases. So far I found none.


Thanks again.

Edited by: Blopa at: 10/22/01 1:08:34 pm