Author Topic: RMA staff I remember from RMA, you post yours from CEDU  (Read 57109 times)

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Offline Samara

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Re: RMA staff I remember from RMA, you post yours from CEDU
« Reply #60 on: June 06, 2010, 06:53:40 PM »
Interesting, Whooter, that you keep putting accountability on kids. How about those "poor parents" who have to send their terrible teen away? Oh yes, I remember, you got to keep the parents on board to maximize profits.

The fact is very few posters (in spite of your condescension) would exclaim to be the poster child for Main Street America. (And does it really exist?)  My argument is whether you were just different, a pain in the ass, or serious trouble, why would you put your child in a program?  The ones on this forum seem to share common "treatment"  modalities that include the following:

1. Attack therapy and persistent public humiliation (how does this develop self esteem?)

2. Total lack of "therapeutic" and interpersonal boundaries (important for trust and self respect)

3. Sustained level of chronic anxiety due to living in an environment of unrealistic social protocols and regular intervals of  public degradation

4. One sized fits all therapy that ignores the individual needs of each student. No individual treatment.

5. Insular cultic social paradigms that promotes intense interpersonal relationships and social paradigms that does NOT work in the "real world"

6. Staff who are unaccredited, unaccountable, inculcated, and/or projecting their own neuroses on residents.   (If my Dad heard staff confessions, I would have been out in a heart beat. Really sick, twisted stuff.  How are we supposed to feel safe much less respectful of these people?)

7. Regular participation in 1-7 day psychodramas that manipulate and distort the sense of self and infuse cult "values" and "thinking"

8. Regular immersion in 1-7 day experiential/psychodramas that create an atmosphere of overwhelming intensity and false sense of meaning that can NEVER be duplicated outside the cult. Thus, when you leave, you constantly seek a level of intensity in experiences and relationships that is not healthy or normative.  Just by nature of its intensity, everything is rendered meaningless comparatively.

9. No preparation for the real world.  You are stripped bare, infused with social schematics that do not exist "outside," and are often unprepared academically with false or inflated transcripts.  

10. Low self esteem because everything is "dirty" - this is especially harmful when the things labeled dirty are normative feelings and behaviors.  For example, I can't smile at a male peer my age, but I can sit on the lap and be stroked by an adult male staff member.   This is just one example.

11. Students level up by badgering and bullying others, participating, leading, and powerhousing in attack therapy.

12. Arbitrary, bizarre, petty rules designed not for practical compliance but to break you down. There is no way you can follow them ALL the time.  Another way to shame and control students.

13. Total insularity from outside world, all contact monitored, no true advocacy for the child. Threatened with deportation to a very frightening lock down facility if you complain/lack compliance even when you are NOT a criminal, an addict, or a threat.

14. Conflict of interests. Staff will create dishonest family dynamics to divide the family and retain power over the child. Also, parents often not held accountable because you don't piss off the bank. I can tell you right now the staff lied about me to my parents and my parents about me. My family and I all agree on this now comparing notes later.  The same phrases and techniques were used with other students and families. One power staff did admit to me that lying is sometimes part of the job.

15. From the outset, the youth  resident is criminalized, already characterized as "bad" -- this is simply a bad place to start.  You can't grow if you've already been stigmatized and painted with a very side brush.  


I am skeptical of all programs because so many employ these techniques on a systemic level. I am skeptical of programs because I do not want to insert  middle management in the relationship between myself and my children. I do not accept programs because I do not want an unknown, packaged entity to takeover "the voice" of my children. I do not accept programs because I do not want them to feel degraded, broken, and replaced by some Stepford version of themselves.

No matter what struggles children might face, these are not the values and experiences that will serve them best.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Awake

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Re: RMA staff I remember from RMA, you post yours from CEDU
« Reply #61 on: June 06, 2010, 07:21:32 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Joel"
RAPS > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pJnj4m5 ... re=related (Ned was a part of this like every other RMA Staff)
Smush > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Uzkg0mw ... re=related (Ned like every other staff promoted this crap at RMA)  

Maybe that is why Ned Left the industry... many people here on fornits use to be part of the industry (staff etc.) and then left.  Ned isnt using these techniques now.  Maybe he felt they were ineffective and decided to move on to another industry or try something different.



...


So if the program is abusive by nature, and the staff are implementing it accordingly, that does not make the staff abusive?



.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline DannyB II

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Re: RMA staff I remember from RMA, you post yours from CEDU
« Reply #62 on: June 06, 2010, 07:23:24 PM »
:shamrock:  :shamrock:  :shamrock:
« Last Edit: June 06, 2010, 07:36:06 PM by DannyB II »
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Offline DannyB II

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Re: RMA staff I remember from RMA, you post yours from CEDU
« Reply #63 on: June 06, 2010, 07:28:27 PM »
:shamrock:  :shamrock:  :shamrock:
« Last Edit: June 06, 2010, 07:36:48 PM by DannyB II »
Stand and fight, till there is no more.

Offline Whooter

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Re: RMA staff I remember from RMA, you post yours from CEDU
« Reply #64 on: June 06, 2010, 07:31:23 PM »
Quote from: "Samara"
Interesting, Whooter, that you keep putting accountability on kids. How about those "poor parents" who have to send their terrible teen away? Oh yes, I remember, you got to keep the parents on board to maximize profits.

I can tell by your post and lack of empathy for the parents that you have never had an at-risk teen to raise.  But unless you walk in their shoes you will never know.   I think accountability should be placed in the correct place that is all.  The child should share their part of the responsibility.  I would suggest that parents avoid the places that you describe.  I couldn’t imagine a parent choosing a place like that for their child, wow!
The programs that I am use to seeing  have treatment modalities as the following:


1.  Provide students with the necessary structure and time to internalize positive change.

2.  Individual Therapy

3.  Allowing time for each child to experience a stable educational community.

4.  Fosters personal growth.

5.  Help the child to form a healthy self expression and self esteem.

 6.  Inspire children to attain and reach for academic excellence.

7.  Teaches individual responsibility and service to others.

8.  Get parents involved to help rebuild mutually respect and responsible relationships.

9.  Realize true healthy growth and assist in the creation of a positive future for each student and their family.

10.  A program which has demonstrated better than an 80% success rate where 100% of the graduates are accepted at the college of their choice.

11.  Transitional programs to insure a seamless transition back to the childs families environment and provide therapeutic support.

Looking at your list and then looking at mine it is easy to see that not all programs are the same.  I suggest that parents contact other parents who have had kids who have graduated from the program.  This gives them an opportunity to screen for problem programs like you have described, Samara.



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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Joel

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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
« Reply #65 on: June 06, 2010, 07:33:09 PM »
Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
« Last Edit: October 07, 2010, 02:21:44 PM by Joel »

Offline Awake

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Re: RMA staff I remember from RMA, you post yours from CEDU
« Reply #66 on: June 06, 2010, 07:37:19 PM »
Quote from: "Awake"
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Joel"
RAPS > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pJnj4m5 ... re=related (Ned was a part of this like every other RMA Staff)
Smush > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Uzkg0mw ... re=related (Ned like every other staff promoted this crap at RMA)  

Maybe that is why Ned Left the industry... many people here on fornits use to be part of the industry (staff etc.) and then left.  Ned isnt using these techniques now.  Maybe he felt they were ineffective and decided to move on to another industry or try something different.



...


So if the program is abusive by nature, and the staff are implementing it accordingly, that does not make the staff abusive?



.



Again, same question.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline DannyB II

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Re: RMA staff I remember from RMA, you post yours from CEDU
« Reply #67 on: June 06, 2010, 07:42:57 PM »
Quote
Quote from: "Joel"
Danny you don't have a whole lot of wiggle room to call someone sick considering your rant the last couple of days and personal message to Antigen.  

I will say one last thing about Ned Murray.   He yelled at students in raps, allowed students to yell at one another in raps, ran propheets where students received minimal food/sleep/water and pushed the CEDU RMA culture onto other children.  Henceforth [brainwashing].  Ned promoted inappropriate boundaries via. smushing.  He would participate in these activities with students.  There are allot of people who don't know what this is.  Students would lay their head on another students part of the body.  It took me 15 years to wake up to the fact what a kool aid factory was.  If anyone sees blown away in idaho, tell him I said hello.  

Joel

PG 41

You are right that is why I pulled out of this thread. I missed the point.

Danny
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline DannyB II

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Re: RMA staff I remember from RMA, you post yours from CEDU
« Reply #68 on: June 06, 2010, 07:47:28 PM »
Quote
Joel wrote:
Danny you don't have a whole lot of wiggle room to call someone sick considering your rant the last couple of days.

Your judgment of me is not fair at all. Why?????? Because if my "rant" as you call it was advocating what you and your friends were for, I'd be a hero like Felicio.

Quote
Joel wrote
and personal message to Antigen.

My conversation with Antigen is none of your business.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Stand and fight, till there is no more.

Joel

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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
« Reply #69 on: June 06, 2010, 07:53:19 PM »
Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
« Last Edit: October 07, 2010, 02:24:45 PM by Joel »

Offline Whooter

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Re: RMA staff I remember from RMA, you post yours from CEDU
« Reply #70 on: June 06, 2010, 08:06:23 PM »
Quote from: "Awake"

So if the program is abusive by nature, and the staff are implementing it accordingly, that does not make the staff abusive?



.
That’s actually a really good question, Awake.  I guess they would be viewed as abusive.  But would they know it themselves?  Maybe they feel they are doing good.  

Take the girl at the pharmacy counter who gives you the morning after pill. Does she know what she is giving you?  Is she considered complicit in the murder of an unborn child?  Is the Pharmacist that fills the prescription?  Or just The doctor who prescribed it?



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Awake

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Re: RMA staff I remember from RMA, you post yours from CEDU
« Reply #71 on: June 06, 2010, 08:22:39 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Awake"

So if the program is abusive by nature, and the staff are implementing it accordingly, that does not make the staff abusive?



.
That’s actually a really good question, Awake.  I guess they would be viewed as abusive.  But would they know it themselves?  Maybe they feel they are doing good.  

Take the girl at the pharmacy counter who gives you the morning after pill. Does she know what she is giving you?  Is she considered complicit in the murder of an unborn child?  Is the Pharmacist that fills the prescription?  Or just The doctor who prescribed it?



...


What if the pill isn't a pill but a direct action that controls the behavior and autonomy of another? Holding someone to the ground, insulting them, telling to 'fight for their life'. I'm really not going to go into the whole of Cedu with you, but I'll assert right now that the entire context was abusive, and I'll defend that statement if you want. I think it's a good question too.

If the program is abusive by nature, and the staff are implementing it accordingly, that does not make the staff abusive?

I don't society has enough insight into these programs to make a clear, ethical judgement for how we should prosecute abuse in the troubled teen industry, and it can't operate ethically until we do.



.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Samara

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Re: RMA staff I remember from RMA, you post yours from CEDU
« Reply #72 on: June 06, 2010, 08:27:49 PM »
Whooter, it defies logic that you say you can't imagine parents who would send their children to the places I describe. Well, I agree it defies logic. But it is also common. The brochures look good. The marketing looks good. Parents are worn out and tired and frankly, many just don't give a damn... I know many, many, many students who 20 years later have PTSD and their parents still insist the programs "saved" them.  Denial.  I split from the program and was still so brainwashed I probably would have done a pro-program PSA for years afterward.  Many "successful" graduate students would say the same. It takes a while for the kool aid to wear off. You divest so much of yourself that you can't accept it was all for naught.

And do not condescend to tell me that I can't fathom what these parents are going through. Yes, I can.

And you know what? Some are desperate and terrified. But some are totally self involved schmucks who just warehouse kids after they f*ck them up the way other people outsource IT jobs. And so many kids were sent to these programs at the behest of their lovely new step parents.

The accountability argument - parent vs. student - does not factor into the acceptance of absuive programs.

My program spouted many of the same components your's did... Doesn't make it true.

The issue for me is why you keep pretending this issue is isolated? Do you go on rape forums and tell the women there that it really didn't happen except in a few isolated cases?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Whooter

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Re: RMA staff I remember from RMA, you post yours from CEDU
« Reply #73 on: June 06, 2010, 08:34:03 PM »
Quote from: "Awake"


What if the pill isn't a pill but a direct action that controls the behavior and autonomy of another? Holding someone to the ground, insulting them, telling to 'fight for their life'. I'm really not going to go into the whole of Cedu with you, but I'll assert right now that the entire context was abusive, and I'll defend that statement if you want. I think it's a good question too.

If the program is abusive by nature, and the staff are implementing it accordingly, that does not make the staff abusive?

I don't society has enough insight into these programs to make a clear, ethical judgement for how we should prosecute abuse in the troubled teen industry, and it can't operate ethically until we do.



.

I think one needs to decide what the vantage point is before the answer can be attained.

For example if we looked at the staff administering chemotherapy and watched the child slowly get sick, start vomiting, watch her hair fall out, watch her cry and become too embarrassed to have her friends see her.  It is clearly abusive(short term) but we accept it because the abuse may make her better long term.

The same may be true with the staff at these programs that you describe.  You also might consider that very few people could maintain a job where they wake knowing they are going to abusing children.  I couldn’t imagine that any of them feel that way.



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Whooter

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Re: RMA staff I remember from RMA, you post yours from CEDU
« Reply #74 on: June 06, 2010, 08:44:54 PM »
Quote from: "Samara"
Whooter, it defies logic that you say you can't imagine parents who would send their children to the places I describe. Well, I agree it defies logic. But it is also common. The brochures look good. The marketing looks good. Parents are worn out and tired and frankly, many just don't give a damn... I know many, many, many students who 20 years later have PTSD and their parents still insist the programs "saved" them. Denial. I split from the program and was still so brainwashed I probably would have done a pro-program PSA for years afterward. Many "successful" graduate students would say the same. It takes a while for the kool aid to wear off. You divest so much of yourself that you can't accept it was all for naught.

And do not condescend to tell me that I can't fathom what these parents are going through. Yes, I can.
So  we should agree that the parents like myself can easily understand what the kids are going through?

Quote
And you know what? Some are desperate and terrified. But some are totally self involved schmucks who just warehouse kids after they f*ck them up the way other people outsource IT jobs. And so many kids were sent to these programs at the behest of their lovely new step parents.
Yes, there are all types of parents that cover the whole spectrum.

Quote
The accountability argument - parent vs. student - does not factor into the acceptance of absuive programs.
No it doesn’t, I agree.  The accountability I was speaking of was the events leading up to placement.  Prior to treatment.

Quote
My program spouted many of the same components your's did... Doesn't make it true.
Exactly, that is why it is a good idea for parents to speak with other parents and kids who went through the program.  You shouldn’t choose a place based on their brochure.

Quote
The issue for me is why you keep pretending this issue is isolated? Do you go on rape forums and tell the women there that it really didn't happen except in a few isolated cases?
But if they were raped by a teacher in a public school they should be told that not all teachers are rapists.  If their rape was an isolated case they should be told so that they can begin to feel safe again reemerging back into their society.



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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »