Ok, I think I know who this is. I won't name you, but please give careful consideration to what I'm trying to tell you, just asif I had called you out by name, ok?
On 2005-10-18 21:11:00, Anonymous wrote:
My concerns are that if you want to build a strategy and try to do something against "the enemy" typically you reveal your plans. It seems to me, too, that they're on here stirring things up and getting people upset. It's tough to differentiate who's who when so many post as anons.
Trust me, you're not the first one to have thought of that. Just don't get upset, ok? Just let them blather and posture and, occasionally, reveal their real thoughts and show their asses. They need secrecy. That's why all the slap suits and threats and other such nonsense. We, who just want the truth to be known and understood, have no such liability.
We all care about the same thing - the kids and stopping the maddness.
Yes, indeed. And you must understand that "we", in this case, includes the Program zealots; even the worst of the worst of them
believe that they're the good guys and all others who question them are driven by some flavor of evil or other. Belief is not enough.
I guess we all have our own ideas of how to get there and what we can do to help. I just wish more people would become like-minded, form a coalition of sorts, and work together. I think one of the problems is that people who were in programs look at things so differently than those who were not.
Yes, I agree that's a big problem! See, we actually lived it while you just think you know something. Do you think we're all still children just because we're talking about things that happened when we were? If so, please work to clear that misperception from your mind. We're not children. We're parents ourselves. And our kids have not all magically turned out as perfect honor roll geeks or child proteges. We deal w/ the very real difficulties of raising kids ta day just as anyone else does. We're not at all blind to that aspect of things.
I haven't figured out the whole Sue Scheff and Jeff Berryman issue. I only hope that their intentions are good and that they too have the kids' best interest at heart.
Well, you could just sit there in the dark and hope. Or you could ask around among a broad variety of people who actually know something, ask for opinions, support for such opinions, documentation of various kinds then form your own opinions.
I still can't grasp why Sue would promote programs that are abusive since she's been a victim - or I should say her daughter has been a victim - of abuse at a program. I thought money wasn't an issue for her, from what I heard in the past. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe things are not as they had appeared. I just hope that everyone is wrong about her and that she will prove to be who I thought she was. Jeff too.
My personal opinion is that the money is just icing on the cake. I know the neighborhood in which Sue lives. It's one of those Westinghouse planned communities full of yuppies w/ more money than brains and very little foresight. I get the feeling that Sue's current level of income is just about the level of comfort to which she has become accustomed through birth and marriage and, if rumors are correct, a litigious bent.
No, I think the real driving force for Sue is just the same as most of our own parents. She doesn't really have a problem w/ invasive, destructive behavior modificaion. Emotional and psyche abuse are ok. But she (like many) just haven't connected all the dots (yet?) to understand how the level of mindfucking routinely employed in this industry sets up the perfect environment for the more overt, less deniable forms of abuse that have recently come to your attention.
As for those of you who are victims of programs. I can see how pissed off you would be if you thought someone who was supposed to be on our side was making money promoting programs - any programs - as most of you would rather there were none.
But in reality there will be programs and parents will send their kids to them. Sick, sad, I agree. But I know it won't end any time soon. I'm sure you are all aware of that too.
I couldn't agree more. The industry doesn't exist in a vacume. It's a natural and complimentary adjunct to the less invasive, more broadly accepted anti-youth aspects of our culture. It's taken us several generations to reach this point and I'm convinced it will take awhile to get back to some saner way of doing things, if we ever do get there.
How about promoting those programs that are safe and effective, those that are close to home, where they hire professionals, PhD's, where the child goes during the day and comes home at night. And where the parents are involved in therapy so that the entire family is responsible for the problems, not just the teen. Parents need to remember that teens don't just wake up and decide to be bad. Something leads them there and the family needs to work together to figure out what went wrong, as a unit.
Great idea! Name them, please! You have a great resource here and on many other websites to get solid information about just about any school or program out there. Use it. Just disregard the ad hominem attacks and other assorted bullshit and just focus on checking facts.
I don't think parents need to find good programs w/ credentialed staff so much as they need to remember that humans have been raising children w/o professional assistance for all of our existance up until the past 30 years or so. There is no authoritative owner's manual. There is no valid expertise above good old fashioned mom-fu in this field of endevour. It's so damned obvious, isn't it? How do you not spot bullshit like "over 50% of school age children are abnormal" or Oppositional Defiant Disorder? Come
ON now! Have you spent time w/ schoolpeople lately? Really looked into how we're treating our kids ta' day? I think it takes a neurotic personality to NOT oppose and defy some of these little aging bullies.
Most of the time, the kids are not the ones w/ the disorders. It's the parents who have a frail grasp on reality. If it were really about helping kids to sort things out, they'd be marketing to the kids. But they don't, do they?
Much of the time, all the kid needs is to get out from under the control of crazy parents. And, most of the time, kids in that sort of situation take steps to bring that about.
Anyway, I just hope that we'll get answers and that we'll know once and for all where these folks are coming from. I'd like to think they're still thinking about the kids' best interest, I really would.
"
Sure, they're thinking they know better than anyone what's best for everyone. Just hear them out and see what they say themselves about their beliefs. You'll find gems, if you look for them, like "most teens are dishonest" and "of course teenagers don't want what's best for them, you have to force them to it".
They believe this bullshit. They really do. That's what makes them dangerous. I'm only half kidding when I wonder when they'll start throwing bomb laden virgins at us. They're that fervent in their faith. But it's just that; faith, just a belief not founded in fact at all.
Now please, if you want to help, lend an ear to those of us who have been there and given much thought to the whole epoch. Don't insult us by assuming that everything we do or say is driven by some neurotic attachment to decades old vendettas. Consider, at least, how resillient the human spirit is, that maybe most of us have actually sorted out the emotional baggage and that our observations on the whole issue may be based on long term observation, solid information and well reasoned assessment. In other words, condescention will get you nowhere that you want to be.
G: "If we do happen to step on a mine, Sir, what do we do?"
EB: "Normal procedure, Lieutenant, is to jump 200 feet in the air and scatter oneself over a wide area."
-- Somewhere in No Man's Land, BA4
