Finally talked to my other friend who was sent to wildnernes

[Antigen]

Why do I think Dr. V would care.... .... about the flyer or the site?


Well, for one thing ya'll are here all of a sudden. For another, I have it from reliable sources that a bunch of cult members made a lot of harassing calls just after the flyers went out. That would certainly indicate interest, wouldn't you say?

[velvet2000]

gr8tful.... You have my email address, and so does everyone else here so don't use that as an excuse not to respond to things on this board. I have not said anything that I can't testify to witnessing or experiencing, or that others have told me that they could testify too. Basing websites or postings on lies is useless and I'm too old for that crap.


To say taht there was no restraining in aarc is proposterous! I don't know what Alberta Adolescent Recovery Centre you were in, but the one that I was in restrained anyone who wanted to "run", had oldcoemers sleep in front of doors while parents hid their shoes, had choldlocked doors on cars and on windows, and everyone except for level 3's and 4's in aarc were monitored by staff or other oldcomers at all times. I can mention one boy in about 95 who ran from a host home and was sat on by his oldcomer and other newcomers until staff came to help out somehow. I'd have to stop and think about exactly who else tended up restrained was sat on, or who was simply held down, held while standing up, or was surrounded.

[velvet2000]

I forgot... I believe that Dr. Vause does have a doctorate, but in what? Physical education? Again, the question was if he can call himself a psyhologist, and according to the College of Alberta Psychologists, no matter where he got the degree he can not use that title while working in Alberta when he is not registered with them. Years before I tried to give him the benifit of the doubt to, and called New Jersey, Vancouver, Saskatoon, Regina, Edmonton, and found that he had never been registered with them either. I even let it go and called back to CoAP every year or two to see if maybe they'd just made a computer slip up or something. Nopers.


And yes, very angry at you guys, but no not lonely or bitter or pathetic or whatever you'll try to lable me as. Not a "druggie" a "bottom feeder" or a drunk either for that matter. If you try to call being angry at someone for legitimate reasons a defect, you may aswell be using, it's an easier way to disasociate yourself from natural feelings.  

[ramprato]

I agree...do tell Right,


You people that are saying Vause has a degree/or degrees, whatever, find out from him what his "degrees" are in and where he obtained them from. Ask him just what he learned from Miller Newton about obtaining "degrees". I understand the Reverend:Father:Cassion:"Dr." Miller Newton has "degrees" in anthropology for starts and here's how he got them:

http://fornits.com/straight/people/medical-doctors/newton/newton-credentials.htm'>fornits.com/straight/peop...ntials.htm


Most doctors, dentists, surgeons, psychiatrists, psychologists, ect... are more than proud to display their credentials on the walls of their offices, is Vause the same, or an exception to that tradition? Why don't one of you out there hyping the Vause cause tell us what all these "degrees" are that he has, we'd be satisfied with even one.

[honestguy]

not mad just think its pethatic well I took alot of time to think about what to write. Fine you win, be fu@#ing right it if it will make you happy. I know and 80% of peaple who have graduated know one simple thing thay feel better about them selves today then they did before they came into treatment. Also I feel as though you people are atacking the people of aarc. Any one can make people wrong but you cant make the process wrong, PEOPLES LIVES GET BETTER!!!! I am trully sorry yours did not get better but the majority do get better. Personally I'm not that scared of 2 or 3 people crawling around  in cyberspace throwing shots I dare you to make the facts wrong. You cant thats why there called facts there not open for resentments but in closing it seems to me the only thing you guys talk about is how much we lie so I will agree with you aarc brainwashed me but my brain needed a good washing

[Antigen]

Don't that just tell it all Honest guy, I know you probably take it as an article of faith that all that you say is true. But it simply is not. 80% success? Please. Show me the long term outcome studies. I'd bet good money you aren't even in touch with 20% of the folks you've seen on front row, first chair, huh?


Even those few people who, like you, remain brainwashed and eternally greatful to the  megalomaniac who did it to you are not worth the sorrow and heart-ach of those of us who, decades later, STILL have unresolved issues with family, nightmares, rage and the memory of friends who didn't make the trip.


You could make a direct comparison to organ transplant. It's a wonderful thing that doctors today can save lives by transplanting organs. It's a risky business, and not every patient makes it. But for those who do, and for those who love them, it is a wonderful, wonderful miracle of modern medicine.


There are some differences, though. They don't go and drag healthy people off the street and take them kicking and screaming to harvest their organs. They don't perform procedures at all without fully informed consent of the patient. (not just a good idea, it's the law) They don't perform unproven procedures at all except for patients who are determined by several physicans (real ones... with medical licenses in good standing and all) to be terminal AND likely to benefit from the procedure.


And any doctor who would perform an organ transplant based on the kind of diagnostic criteria used by these programs to diagnose 'disease' might easily spend the remainder of his life in a prison for the mentally derranged. And that, in my opinion, is just how it should be.

[ramprato]

Are you sure about that "sucess rate" Everybody wants to get in on the act and brag about a success rate that doesn't exist. That place is based on the same methods Straight used and straight also claimed a 75%, 82% 70% up and down but always high "success rate". Did you read that off an aarc pamphlet, or did you take a poll?


As far as my life goes, it's fine, I no longer am under the influence of a bunch of sicko mind rapists, oh yeah, I get mad, but I work that off by getting active to close those places down, Heck, I even quit smoking when I started dealing with the reality that I was violated and scammed, that was a real weight off my shoulders.


Go ahead, look up and compare your mind rape mill with the "success rates" of KHK, SAFE, Growing Together, and Pathway Family Center, all spin-offs of Straight Inc. and Kids centers as well. Just scroll down at this link and look up what they have to say, scam artists such as these places are, like to market a "successful" product to the public too. NO offence, but I doubt you really know the true rate anyway: http://fornits.com/anonanon/'>fornits.com/anonanon/ Trust me they all boast an average 75%, just a bunch of b.s., how many of those people you keep track of, don't tell me all 300 or what ever the exact number is, remember now, your not supposed to associate with pull-offs or copouts. whoops, I guess that just cut into your 80% success rate.....so sorry.......

[Antigen]

Rightious indignation Come to think of it, if being angry over past abuse is a legitimate criteria to diagnose mental illness, I think we've all got far bigger problems than eachother. Have you listened to that Bush guy lately? He's got SERIOUS anger issues toward that guy Usama. It might even be genetic, as his daddy had the same problem with Sadam. Hmm.... maybe there's something to this....
http://fornits.com/images/MINIBUSH.jpg align=left'>

[Cheeky54]

just speaking the truth You say that you are not afraid of the 2 or 3 of us that are throwing shots via ciberspace.  Why then do you feel the need to justify your beloved centre?  Who are you trying to convince, us or yourself.


No matter how often you say "80%" of graduates have better lives, are happy, clean/sober, you will never convince me, I know you are full of SH^T.


My purpose for posting on this board, as I have said previously, is to help heal myself through sharing with others.  I don't have time in my life to think "how am I going to piss them off today", "what lies can I tell?".  Nope sorry, doesn't happen.


I started coming to this site because I felt it was right for me.  Reading "honestguys" comments was like reading out of a "how to show our love to AARC" manual.  Needed your "brain washed", that is what I call pathetic.  


I have a life! thank you very much. I have people in my life today that I have choose to have a connection with, that bring gifts to my life and I to theirs. Most of the connections I had in AARC, were out of fear of going outside the box.


You will never convince those of us who have been there and who have finally woken up, that AARC is such a fabulous place, so stop trying, your just wasting your breath.  


I've stopped listening to people's lies.

[TallyR]

Success Rates Generally speaking, I think most treatment programs compute "success" rate based on program completion.  That is, they met the requirements to complete the program. Period.   This is not to be confused with any long term effects or happiness.  I recently requested info from "Growing Together" who said that that have a whopping success rate and would sent info regarding how they measure, but nothing arrived in the mail except some newspaper article along with program info.  The newspaper article was about a girl whose parents thought that she was using alcohol and mj, but found out after she was in the program that she was using 18 different substances.   They were ever so grateful because it "saved her life".  Most centers rely on ancedotal stories that appeal to the emotions to "prove" how successful they are. There was no quantitative measurement info even though I was told that they follow-up clients for 5 years.  When someone has been on treatment in prison or on probation, the recommitment rate is included as a measure of success.  This is a societal measure.  They can get regular drug tests while on probation, but once they are off there is no way to know if someone is truly drug free.   Individual success (relationships, finances, happiness, being drug free are difficult to measure)   Does anyone know of any surveys of former clients of long term treatments that have been done after 5 years out?  10 years out? And if someone is "successful" by whatever definition used -What are the "other" factors that contribute to that success?  Social Science research can be somewhat complex, because people are more complex than dogs.    How long can classical conditioning work in the real and complex world?

[Antigen]

Actually, yes... There have been some proper studies done of various treatment methods and specific programs. But treatment providers generally disavow all knowledge (and they're not usually lying, which is REALLY scary considering how often the courts, employers and families remand people to their tender mercies)


Here's one good article.

http://www.peele.net/lib/projmach.html'>BAIT AND SWITCH IN PROJECT MATCH: WHAT NIAAA RESEARCH ACTUALLY SHOWS ABOUT ALCOHOL TREATMENT

By Stanton Peele

Morristown, NJ

Published: PsychNews International, Vol. 2, May-June 1997


And here's an excellent book on the topic
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/081269404X/circlofmiamithem'>Addiction Is A Choice

[velvet2000]

80? I thought it was "almost half"? Well "honesty guy" isn't all that honest because he's posted under various names and written plenty already.


Well "DMX" said that it was almost half, S*e*e said that it was 60%, honesty guy says that it's 80%. I can understand their confusion because "lol" says "I know of countless lives that have been changed". Well if you can't count to 170 how can you educated your followers??!!!


If you're going try to use this space for advertisement you should know that false advertisment is illegal.

[honestguy]

why are all you so mad??? while i could not help but notice how many of you where pissed off at me i have to confess that i was laughing my ass off while i was reading your letter. this will be my last time writing because all you do is recycle the same b.s to me. you all jus sit around whining about how hurt and mad you all are at aarc but you still have not once anwsered any of my questions. when you can tell me how my life is worse than before then i will join your side untill then keep on being a baby because like i said before you know where to f#^king find me.

[normal guy]

you are all so lame if you all so lame you have nothing better to do then complain about some treatment center i have no use for you. you go around thinking your so tough by posting up flyes on lamp post in -20 weather. you cant even show your faces to anyone. using fake names to bash a treatment center that has helped alot of people ( oh wait i forgot to include an exact # for you people) you dont even have the nuts to go to aarc and tell them how you feel your all a bunch of dumbasses  

[velvet2000]

Is "numbnuts" a medical term? Actually I don't think that you did ask us why life is harder before, but I can go ahead and answer that for you now. Too bad it will be your last time posting under that name.


To keep it short it screwed my family up entirely. My siblings and eventually my parents couldn't stand all that lingo and lies it took to keep up with the aarc image.


For another my innocent sexual encounters were turned into shameful secrets and abuse which I had never seen them as before. It took me years to remember what had really happened, and that they really were nothing but innocent sexual encounters!


Another, my life was separated into incidents and not one journey. It became very hard for me to see the big picture. Regressive therapy is not meant to go on for thirteen hour days six days a week, and it's not meant to be used my "peers"either.


All of the "resentment is the number one killer", "your disease is outside doing pushups". "If you go back out you will surely die" and the "pattern of insanity" talk shared with being told that anyone I'd ever been friends with prior to AARC will make me go back out, then make me die, made me a little paranoid. I've never been able to trust people the same now that AARC has turned everyone outside of aarc into some demon waiting to take me under.


Being told that I needed to make amends to people who had abused me, or to God when I couldn't make direct amends was slightly damaging. Being told that "blaming" them for my "issues" was "manipulative" and that I was a "con" was damaging. Imagine someone actually being abused for no right reason, and there never is a right reason, being told that they had some fault in it and needed to ask for God's forgiveness! Why that's healthy.


Oh this is only the beginning, there is sadly so much more. But you aren't going to read any of this or post anymore because we are pathetic whining babies. He talks to his clients this way to everyone. Yet another reason for us needing to survive you.