Author Topic: Why some deserved to be there (clarification)  (Read 10577 times)

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Offline starry-eyed pirate

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Why some deserved to be there (clarification)
« Reply #30 on: October 11, 2005, 09:05:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-10-11 17:59:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Nobody likes a spoiled child but that doesn't mean they deserve to be beaten, ridiculed and to have their emotional self whacked off at the knees.  That's my beef with what he stated."


Uh-Huh.  Plus that other shit, i think.
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If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end.  People are not commodities.  When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY.

Offline Anonymous

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Why some deserved to be there (clarification)
« Reply #31 on: October 11, 2005, 09:17:00 PM »
What other shit?
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Offline Anonymous

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Why some deserved to be there (clarification)
« Reply #32 on: October 11, 2005, 09:28:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-10-11 17:29:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Jerk is a talented writer. He also has a phenomenal memory. He has also started a good topic for debate. Thumbs up, Jerk, You done good. People take offense easily because you says what you means. You didn't like those spoiled kids. I didn't like hardly anyone in Straight either.

"


So then, the ones you "didn't like" deserved what they got???? :eek:  :eek:   Seriously, go back and read his first post in this thread.  You agree that those "spoiled kids" deserved to "have their asses whooped"????  Scary and sad, very sad.
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Offline starry-eyed pirate

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Why some deserved to be there (clarification)
« Reply #33 on: October 11, 2005, 09:32:00 PM »
i don' know ...wasn' there some other shit too, like jus' a whole lot of fuckin' humilliation and deprevity 'n' all too ??  Maybe that is even the same shit. i don' know...
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If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end.  People are not commodities.  When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY.

Offline Anonymous

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Why some deserved to be there (clarification)
« Reply #34 on: October 11, 2005, 09:37:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-10-11 18:32:00, starry-eyed pirate wrote:

"i don' know ...wasn' there some other shit too, like jus' a whole lot of fuckin' humilliation and deprevity 'n' all too ??  Maybe that is even the same shit. i don' know..."


Absolutely!!  I find that part of the whole deranged deal more damaging than any of the physical shit that happened in there.  I can deal with that.  I can get over that, but the psychological shit was, IMO, the most damaging and the most lasting.  Again, NO ONE deserves that...especially kids, and that's what we all were....just kids.
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Offline starry-eyed pirate

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Why some deserved to be there (clarification)
« Reply #35 on: October 11, 2005, 09:49:00 PM »
Yeah, and well, i'm sure you already know then, what i would pro'ly have ta say.  

Peace.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end.  People are not commodities.  When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY.

Offline Anonymous

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Why some deserved to be there (clarification)
« Reply #36 on: October 11, 2005, 09:59:00 PM »
No, actually I don't.  Honestly.  Haven't the foggiest.  Please elaborate.
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Offline starry-eyed pirate

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Why some deserved to be there (clarification)
« Reply #37 on: October 11, 2005, 10:25:00 PM »
Well, i feel like i'm whuppin' up on a dead horse or sumthin' but...jus' how authority actually perpetrates injustice.  Society is a prison.  Minors need more rights. The World is so fucked up, Etc.,  You know.


i'm shuttin' down for th' night.  Namaste.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end.  People are not commodities.  When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY.

Offline Anonymous

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Why some deserved to be there (clarification)
« Reply #38 on: October 11, 2005, 11:18:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-10-11 11:07:00, Anonymous wrote:

"What is the significance of this "85 Day Jerk" moniker anyway?  "


It means he jerked off in group eighty-five days in a row.
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Offline Anonymous

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Why some deserved to be there (clarification)
« Reply #39 on: October 12, 2005, 01:54:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-10-11 18:28:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2005-10-11 17:29:00, Anonymous wrote:


"Jerk is a talented writer. He also has a phenomenal memory. He has also started a good topic for debate. Thumbs up, Jerk, You done good. People take offense easily because you says what you means. You didn't like those spoiled kids. I didn't like hardly anyone in Straight either.


"




So then, the ones you "didn't like" deserved what they got???? :eek:  :eek:   Seriously, go back and read his first post in this thread.  You agree that those "spoiled kids" deserved to "have their asses whooped"????  Scary and sad, very sad."


So what. You don't like what he said, and you don't like the way he said it. I'd still rather spend Thanksgiving watching his relatives do their Indy 500 than hang about with you and your sad, very scary and sad, overly-questioning mystified double-emoticonning gene set. Belch and drool. Pass me another well-done Jerk write-up.
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Offline Botched Programming

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Why some deserved to be there (clarification)
« Reply #40 on: October 12, 2005, 09:31:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-10-11 14:56:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2005-10-11 14:47:00, Anonymous wrote:


If my kid was in your position I would have done the same thing.  The chances of getting any real help in prison is nil, its a revolving door.  If someone approached me with a program which had a slight chance of working I would jump all over it.



That's precisely what the programs count on...desperate parents who will try anything regardless of what the consequences to the child in question would be.  And that doesn't even speak about where the hell these parents were before the kid became a 'gun toting boogey man'.  Were they just oblivious for all that time that this boogey kid was simmering???





 
Quote
and, no, I probably wouldnt spend six months researching whether or not it was a perfect fit,



Shame on you then.  It would be your duty as a parent to find out what kind of a place you'd be sending your kid to....and it wouldn't take six months of research.



 "


As far as my parents being oblivious, I guess they actually were as both of my parents were deceased and I was on my own. I had other family members trying to step in and intervene by calling my probation officer, having my probation revoked for simple posession of marijuana. ( My cousin actually gave my PO a bag of grass she found in my pocket when she was doing my laundry. )

And being a gun toting boogey man, I wasn't a pistol waiving adolescent. But I would have used it if I had to....You know how bad dope deals go. :skull:  :skull:  :skull:  :skull:  :skull:  :skull: [ This Message was edited by: DOC SLOW on 2005-10-12 06:31 ]
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Offline TheWho

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Why some deserved to be there (clarification)
« Reply #41 on: October 12, 2005, 12:19:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-10-11 15:19:00, Antigen wrote:

"I quite agree. Desperation is their key marketing ploy. That's why they invest so heavily in propaganda; it yields a very high return.



What's more...

Quote

On 2005-10-11 14:47:00, Anonymous wrote:


 I doubt whether a group hug from his family would right everything and a decision would be needed quickly.






We've been watching too much tv these last couple of generations. We loooooves our stories, don't we children? There are to obvious problems w/ the logic of the sales pitch.



Whether or not someone needs to be taken down by police is almost entirely subjective. Almost. It's pretty objective after the takedown and if and when the accused has had a FAIR trial and been convicted of an actual crime. Then it's pretty objective.



When you hire a transport company to abduct your kid and then pay a private prison to confine and, possibly, torment him, what are you really getting that you can't get from the public prison system? The primary difference is that the public sector at least makes a polite courtsey to due process. But if you've got big bags of money to kick down, why you can just buy your way out of that little nagging problem.



Trust me, juvenile detention was less harmful than Straight. And I was in Macon and Clay counties in Georgia. Neither one offered any real help. But then, I had never asked for or wanted any. At least in detention, if someone treats you in any way close to the way we tormented each other in Straight, THEY would be shipped off to the psyche ward, you would regain your peace and quiet.

This year will go down in history! For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!
         
http://www.aidoann.com/guncontrol.html' target='_new'>Adolph Hitler


"
When a parent hires a transport company to take their child, its not so the kid can be shipped out to be tortured its an intervention.  Its perceived as a better alternative than prison or death.  I am not familiar with these places "Seed" and "Straight" they sound horrorable.  But there are other places where you can take your child to get the help they need.  I have received advise to let the legal system teach my kid a lesson, a few months in prison will strighten the kid out, I was told.  But most parents (That I have talked to) just want to rescue them from that and get them help in a different way, even if it means taking a loan on the house, in a safe enviorment where they can grow, remove them from their present life which isnt working for what ever reason.  I know it is far from what many believe but it is not hatred torwards the kids that drives the parents to spend their lifes savings on their children.  Maybe we are wrong but prison just sounds like a bad choice to many of us, I guess because of what we read about the way it changes people for the worse, having a record and trying to get a job after being released, maybe the prison guards are more compassionate than counselors and the inmates are supportive of each others problems but its not the way we see it when it comes to deciding which road to take.  If it turns out to be a bad choice, its easy to look back and say we should have chosen prison.  But we are driven by what we believe is best for our children.
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Offline Anonymous

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Why some deserved to be there (clarification)
« Reply #42 on: October 12, 2005, 01:25:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-10-12 06:31:00, DOC SLOW wrote:


As far as my parents being oblivious, I guess they actually were as both of my parents were deceased and I was on my own. I had other family members trying to step in and intervene by calling my probation officer, having my probation revoked for simple posession of marijuana. ( My cousin actually gave my PO a bag of grass she found in my pocket when she was doing my laundry. )



And being a gun toting boogey man, I wasn't a pistol waiving adolescent. But I would have used it if I had to....You know how bad dope deals go.

I didn't mean any offense to you.  My response was more directed at this person...

Quote
If my kid was in your position I would have done the same thing. The chances of getting any real help in prison is nil, its a revolving door. If someone approached me with a program which had a slight chance of working I would jump all over it. and, no, I probably wouldnt spend six months researching whether or not it was a perfect fit, if my kid was carrying a gun and needed to be taken down by police I doubt whether a group hug from his family would right everything and a decision would be needed quickly. At least you can look back and know your parents cared enough to avoid prison that time, they could have pocketed the money and spent it on themselves if they didnt care.
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Offline Anonymous

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Why some deserved to be there (clarification)
« Reply #43 on: October 12, 2005, 01:47:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-10-12 09:19:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2005-10-11 15:19:00, Antigen wrote:


"I quite agree. Desperation is their key marketing ploy. That's why they invest so heavily in propaganda; it yields a very high return.





What's more...


Quote


On 2005-10-11 14:47:00, Anonymous wrote:



 I doubt whether a group hug from his family would right everything and a decision would be needed quickly.










We've been watching too much tv these last couple of generations. We loooooves our stories, don't we children? There are to obvious problems w/ the logic of the sales pitch.





Whether or not someone needs to be taken down by police is almost entirely subjective. Almost. It's pretty objective after the takedown and if and when the accused has had a FAIR trial and been convicted of an actual crime. Then it's pretty objective.





When you hire a transport company to abduct your kid and then pay a private prison to confine and, possibly, torment him, what are you really getting that you can't get from the public prison system? The primary difference is that the public sector at least makes a polite courtsey to due process. But if you've got big bags of money to kick down, why you can just buy your way out of that little nagging problem.





Trust me, juvenile detention was less harmful than Straight. And I was in Macon and Clay counties in Georgia. Neither one offered any real help. But then, I had never asked for or wanted any. At least in detention, if someone treats you in any way close to the way we tormented each other in Straight, THEY would be shipped off to the psyche ward, you would regain your peace and quiet.


This year will go down in history! For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!

         
http://www.aidoann.com/guncontrol.html' target='_new'>Adolph Hitler



"

When a parent hires a transport company to take their child, its not so the kid can be shipped out to be tortured its an intervention.  Its perceived as a better alternative than prison or death.  I am not familiar with these places "Seed" and "Straight" they sound horrorable.  But there are other places where you can take your child to get the help they need.  I have received advise to let the legal system teach my kid a lesson, a few months in prison will strighten the kid out, I was told.  But most parents (That I have talked to) just want to rescue them from that and get them help in a different way, even if it means taking a loan on the house, in a safe enviorment where they can grow, remove them from their present life which isnt working for what ever reason.  I know it is far from what many believe but it is not hatred torwards the kids that drives the parents to spend their lifes savings on their children.  Maybe we are wrong but prison just sounds like a bad choice to many of us, I guess because of what we read about the way it changes people for the worse, having a record and trying to get a job after being released, maybe the prison guards are more compassionate than counselors and the inmates are supportive of each others problems but its not the way we see it when it comes to deciding which road to take.  If it turns out to be a bad choice, its easy to look back and say we should have chosen prison.  But we are driven by what we believe is best for our children."


Could you please go back to the Teen Torture forum? I'm seriously suicidal and I can't hang around with parents who remind me of parents who pay to have their children kidnapped and brainwashed.
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Offline Antigen

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Why some deserved to be there (clarification)
« Reply #44 on: October 12, 2005, 02:14:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-10-12 09:19:00, Anonymous wrote:

When a parent hires a transport company to take their child, its not so the kid can be shipped out to be tortured its an intervention.  Its perceived as a better alternative than prison or death.  

Right, I understand that. Had that conversation w/ my dear old dad over 20 years ago. I agree w/ you, I forgave him and he apologized to me; not for the specific bone-headed moves he pulled, but for falling for an outrageous scam that cost both of us and the whole family dearly.

What I'm trying to tell you is that it is a misperception that these coercive, toughlove behavior-mod programs are better or safer than the regular old juvenile or criminal justice system. Now, I'm saying that, not as a rebellious, angry teenager (thought I did say it back then), but as a 40yo mother of 3, one of whom used to be a very rebellious, wreckless, out of control (her own, not just mine) teenager.

In my day, it was probably better. These days, they've got behavior mod programs operating inside the juvenile/criminal 'corrections' sytem. I'm not really kidding when I say there may be a direct, causual relationship between that and the rising rate of youth suicide.

Quote
I am not familiar with these places "Seed" and "Straight" they sound horrorable.  

Well, in a nutshell, same shit, different wrapper. They were (and their existing spin-offs remain) Synanon/12-step based LGA programs. The basic method of induced emotional and psychological stress, isolation and indoctrination are, verbatim, exactly the same throughout the troubled parent industry.

Quote
But there are other places where you can take your child to get the help they need.  I have received advise to let the legal system teach my kid a lesson, a few months in prison will strighten the kid out, I was told.  But most parents (That I have talked to) just want to rescue them from that and get them help in a different way, even if it means taking a loan on the house, in a safe enviorment where they can grow, remove them from their present life which isnt working for what ever reason.  I know it is far from what many believe but it is not hatred torwards the kids that drives the parents to spend their lifes savings on their children.  

Right, again, they're selling you a bill of goods. There is no safe, effective panacea. If you have a hard time being gentle and avoiding conflict w/ your kid, what makes you think these strangers in some remote po-dunk out west or offshore will be better able to pull it off?

Please stop and think about the industry's frequent use of the phrase "for whatever reason". Your kid has specific, individual reasons for whatever trouble they're having. Or maybe not. Very often in this industry, it really and truely is the PARENTS who are over-reacting. We tend to imagine the worst. Then when the kid starts to grow up and seperate from the nuclear family a bit, it gets worse. There are more unknowns. Our imaginations run wild. Then, just when we're at the verge of a total mealtdown (or past it), along comes a friendly, passionate advocate/salesman with The Answer® to all your troubles.  


Quote
Maybe we are wrong but prison just sounds like a bad choice to many of us, I guess because of what we read about the way it changes people for the worse, having a record and trying to get a job after being released, maybe the prison guards are more compassionate than counselors and the inmates are supportive of each others problems but its not the way we see it when it comes to deciding which road to take.  If it turns out to be a bad choice, its easy to look back and say we should have chosen prison.  But we are driven by what we believe is best for our children."


First, most of these kids weren't ACTUALLY in prison. Most of these kids just have parents who ASSUME (for lack of faith in their own children) that that's the only possible outcome. These poor kids get thrown in w/ those rare few who really are psychotic, violent and dangerous. What a mindfuck, eh? Add to that that they're REQUIRED, as part of their "treatment" to confess that they are, indeed, just as fucked up as Mom ever suspected, even moreso, and so, so happy for the chance at salvation. If they try, by any means, to tell you otherwise, there are consequences.

Just do your damned homework, parents! Would you let your pedeatrician inject your baby w/ potentially deadly toxins w/o checking into the risks and benefits for yourself? Oh yeah... I almost forgot, you would and probably did, like most of us.

It's time now, in THIS generation, to resurrect a little healthy credulity. Have a little faith in yourself, your kids and the good old fashioned, unconditional familial love that have, for millennia now, gotten most of us through those awkward years between childhood and adulthood.

It's not perfect, there are no guarantees and I'm not trying to tell you that there are any guarantees. But I remain convinced that this is a superior, more reliable, less risky and better approach to the troubling experience of watching your baby grow up and learn to work w/o a net.

Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't.
-- Anonymous

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