NOTICE TO POTENTIAL PARENTS

[Anonymous]

On 2005-11-25 18:52:00, Antigen wrote:

"Interesting! On the one hand, yeah, probably not the top notch private boarding school it may be cracked up to be. On the other, these girls felt comfortable talking w/ you about it? I'm guessing you've given enough detail to bust your anonymity w/ Hyde staff. Does that concern you? Please let us know if there's any fallout and what kind.

I don't believe in God. My god is patriotism. Teach a man to be a good citizen and you have solved the problem of life.
--Andrew Carnegie, Scottish-born American industrialist and philanthropist

"

The fact that these two girls spoke so candidly about their painful Hyde experience is not a tribute to Hyde -- not at all.  These girls have such intensely negative feelings about Hyde that they can't hold them in.  Their willingness to speak openly about their Hyde experience, and about the patent hypocrisy and flaws at Hyde, reflects their comfort with us.  With our daughter we've always had relatively frank, candid conversations.  She's used to it.  I think my daughter's friend, who is visiting us for the third time, also felt comfortable speaking candidly about Hyde.  

Our decision to leave Hyde is not brand new.  We're now rather public about it.

[Anonymous]

I am copying part of a letter which went out to parents from Joe Gauld.  I remember distinctly that Joe was angry with some of the resistance he was getting during this time!  Note how Gauld talks as though we have to turn our children over to him in order to succeed!.....

    "Isn't Hyde Ever Wrong?"

"Of course Hyde is sometimes wrong.  It is a human institution that requires the constant vigil of students, teachers and parents alike.  In fact, Hyde is merely a temporary scaffolding that must be dismantled by graduation, to ensure the student is led in life by conscience and not Hyde-or even parents.  If we both "let go" properly, we should be confident that conscience will only take from Hyde-and parents-what it deems worthy.

Howevwer, I think the question implies that maybe the parent and not Hyde knows better about a given situation.  Myabe so, but that is DANGEROUS ground that can ultimately lead to students dismissing all of Hyde, both bad-and good.  This question simply does not respect the role Hyde is supposed to play in the family structure.

Since kids-and their parents-have been far more immersed in this counter growth culture than has Hyde, Hyde can be far more objective about how to best address the true final judge on growth issues.  We are in a better position than parents to determine a student's true best, and further we consider our commitment to help each student realize that best a sacred truth.

So--- Yes, we may be wrong, and thus we appreciate all the input we can get.  However in the end, we urge parents that UNTIL GRADUATION to defer to Hyde's judgment not their own. To instead accept their own judgment becomes a clear statement to their children that the Hyde experience is simply an add-on to old family dynamics, and not a new beginning for the entire family.

If you are wise, you don't second-guess your doctor; you simply find another doctor.  Similarly, question Hyde, but don't second-guess it, simply find another school."

I am sure the above will blow most people away other than the Hyde Lovers!!  It was after this letter that I truly realized these people were off their rockers!! :skull:  :skull:

[Anonymous]

On 2005-11-25 20:39:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I am copying part of a letter which went out to parents from Joe Gauld.  I remember distinctly that Joe was angry with some of the resistance he was getting during this time!  Note how Gauld talks as though we have to turn our children over to him in order to succeed!.....



    "Isn't Hyde Ever Wrong?"



"Of course Hyde is sometimes wrong.  It is a human institution that requires the constant vigil of students, teachers and parents alike.  In fact, Hyde is merely a temporary scaffolding that must be dismantled by graduation, to ensure the student is led in life by conscience and not Hyde-or even parents.  If we both "let go" properly, we should be confident that conscience will only take from Hyde-and parents-what it deems worthy.



Howevwer, I think the question implies that maybe the parent and not Hyde knows better about a given situation.  Myabe so, but that is DANGEROUS ground that can ultimately lead to students dismissing all of Hyde, both bad-and good.  This question simply does not respect the role Hyde is supposed to play in the family structure.



Since kids-and their parents-have been far more immersed in this counter growth culture than has Hyde, Hyde can be far more objective about how to best address the true final judge on growth issues.  We are in a better position than parents to determine a student's true best, and further we consider our commitment to help each student realize that best a sacred truth.



So--- Yes, we may be wrong, and thus we appreciate all the input we can get.  However in the end, we urge parents that UNTIL GRADUATION to defer to Hyde's judgment not their own. To instead accept their own judgment becomes a clear statement to their children that the Hyde experience is simply an add-on to old family dynamics, and not a new beginning for the entire family.



If you are wise, you don't second-guess your doctor; you simply find another doctor.  Similarly, question Hyde, but don't second-guess it, simply find another school."



I am sure the above will blow most people away other than the Hyde Lovers!!  It was after this letter that I truly realized these people were off their rockers!! :skull:  :skull: "

Gauld asks parents to trust Hyde's judgment.  Yes, perhaps some staff at Hyde demonstrate good judgment some of the time and provide a useful counterbalance to whatever dysfunctional family dynamics have surrounded the student.  There ARE some good people at Hyde.

But, the cold, hard fact is that too many Hyde staff have a proven record of very poor judgment in many situations.  As a number of people have noted in these postings, and as our family can personally attest (along with at least 25-30 other sets of parents with whom we've had detailed conversations and close contact during our Hyde years), Hyde staff have shown exceedingly poor judgment in a variety of situations where staff lost their temper in extreme ways, harassed students, verbally abused kids, shamed and humiliated parents, failed to respond to students' psychiatric needs, etc.  The roster of incidents where Hyde's policies and staff members' judgment and behavior were poor and destructive is very long.  

Given this context, it seems both comical and insulting (and grandiose) for Joe Gauld to proclaim that Hyde knows best and should be the sole or primary judge.  If Joe Gauld only knew how many people "dis" Hyde once they leave (not to mention those who "dis" Hyde while they're there but play the Hyde game to make it through), and how many former Hyde students get into significant trouble once they leave Hyde, perhaps he wouldn't be so arrogant and delusional about Hyde's "wisdom" and "scaffolding."  This may work for some at Hyde.  But for many, clearly, the Hyde scaffolding is a house of cards.

In his letter Gauld admonishes parents to avoid second-guessing Hyde and to, instead, look for another school if they're concerned about Hyde's approach (much like patients look for another doctor).  That's the best and wisest advice contained in Gauld's letter.  Parents, find another school.  Fast.

[Antigen]

Well, I think that letter states it pretty clearly. Joe Gauld is in the business of utterly destroying and replacing familial affection, tradition and authority. And it's clear that he thinks that's a good thing, too. Not much different, really, from the DOE mission that most private and religious schools bemoan.

I think "tribute" is probably too strong a word. However, I also think it's important to speak as accurately as possible about these places. Remember they Hyde fan earlier shouting about how nothing I or anyone outside of Hyde has to say could be valid? He/she made the argument that I was only critical of Hyde because I was so confused and resentful, thinking Hyde were anything at all like the notorious Seed or Straight.

Well, I do think it's quite similar in many regards. But not identical. And this is one difference; intensity. I know a lot of kids got pulled from Straight while I was there. I assume that some of them took the risk and talked to their parents beforehand. But not many! Speaking for myself, if my own dad had called a meeting and asked me point blank if I wanted out, I would have lied and said no thinking it were some sort of trap. The paranoia ran that deep and, in some families even all these decades later, still does.

But if you've decided to pull your daughter, why did you send her back? Are you worried they'll take it out on her in some way?

We are students of words; we are shut up in schools and colleges and recitation rooms for ten or fifteen years and come out at last with a bag of wind, a memory of words, and do not know a thing.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson

[Anonymous]

On 2005-11-26 07:01:00, Antigen wrote:

"Remember they Hyde fan earlier shouting about how nothing I or anyone outside of Hyde has to say could be valid? He/she made the argument that I was only critical of Hyde because I was so confused and resentful, thinking Hyde were anything at all like the notorious Seed or Straight.

I don't believe I said nothing you had to say was valid, I simply questioned your presence and motives on this site, since you had never been to Hyde and had no personal frame of reference.  (And I don't believe I used the words "confused or resentful", so maybe you could find a link to that to refresh our recollection.  I could have, but doubt it.)

I have, however, repeatedly supported first-hand experiences that weren't obviously lies or otherwise lacking in enough detail to make an accurate determination about the credibility of the poster.  (Tom Allen for example.)

Moreso that likelyhood of your transposing what you think this letter means onto your Seeds experience would seem natural to me, so yes, I still question your presence.

If you look at this letter YES, it comes off as arrogant.  But if you put it in context, which is families in crisis, and really read what he's saying, I read it as:

1.  Your family is at Hyde because it is in crisis (typically) and thus there is a good chance that whatever you are doing is not working.

2.  Hyde has a system.  You have to give us some latitude and time to let it work.  If you don't or you fight us, our experience is that little in your family will change (unless you find another modality of transformation).

3.  The last sentence speaks for itself  

question Hyde, but don't second-guess it, simply find another school.

In fact, I regularly remember Joe Gauld showing people the door, and challenging them.  If they didn't trust, if they weren't open to trying something different, then simply leave.  Its as easy as that.  No captives.  No one is locked in their rooms.  The don't (didn't) chase run-aways or have students guarding other students like I heard they did at Seeds (but don't really know).

In any event, you can try and use this letter to validate your presence and claim Hyde=Seeds.  Everything I ever heard about Seeds sounded much worse than Hyde, but again, since I don't know Seeds I won't make a comparison, because it lacks any real basis other than some minor reading I have done on that stream.

To that end I also won't go on the Seeds stream and talk about something that I know nothing about.

Antigen, I think your website is important.  SERIOUSLY IMPORTANT.  I also trust your motives and think you have a good heart. I just don't think its fair (IMHO) to transpose your experience on whatever you think Hyde is about.

[Anonymous]

In fact, I regularly remember Joe Gauld showing people the door, and challenging them.  If they didn't trust, if they weren't open to trying something different, then simply leave.  Its as easy as that.  No captives.  No one is locked in their rooms.  The don't (didn't) chase run-aways or have students guarding other students like I heard they did at Seeds (but don't really know).

Bulls%^&!  Then why do they tell parents whose kids run away to send them back to Hyde or make them live on the streets?  They were desperate to keep people there.  Oh, and they DID lock me in a room once for several hours in an effort to get me to snitch on others.

[Lars]

Last post was mine.

[Lars]

And while we're on the topic, I also recall a couple of faculty members getting in my face in a very threatening way, as if they were going to assault me (Don MacMillan & Gary Kent).  Totally inappropriate.  It wouldn't suprise me to find out that stuff like that still happens.

As for Joe G.?  He's a drunken (I smelled it on his breath several times) egomaniac bully.  F%^k him and the horse he rode in on!

[tommyfromhyde1]

On 2005-11-26 10:52:00, Lars wrote:

"And while we're on the topic, I also recall a couple of faculty members getting in my face in a very threatening way, as if they were going to assault me (Don MacMillan & Gary Kent).  Totally inappropriate.  It wouldn't suprise me to find out that stuff like that still happens.



As for Joe G.?  He's a drunken (I smelled it on his breath several times) egomaniac bully.  F%^k him and the horse he rode in on!



"

Lars, when I was there it went further than that. There was a very steep hill from the mansion down to the student union which was covered with ice from October on. One time I was walking down this hill and picking my way down very slowly and carefully to avoid falling. Mr. Milton, the dean, came up behind me and shoved me from behind, (I wasn't moving fast enough to suit him), and sent me sprawling on my face. He then accused me of falling on purpose.

Step 1. We came to understand that the government is powerless over people's private use of drugs and that the War on Drugs was making the government's life unmanageable.

--Scott Tillinghast

[Lars]

Soemtimes the abuse was more subtle, like many aspects of the sports programs.  We've talked about sharking in wrestling.  Remember "Bull in the Ring" in football?  They'd get one guy and have every other player line up in a circle around him.  Each person would be assigned a number.  The coach would call out a number and that person would would go in there after the person in the middle.  This wasn't so bad until the coach started calling out three numbers at once so you'd have three guys coming at you from different angles.  This would go on until the person in the middle was on the ground, completely beat up & unable to defend himself.

[tommyfromhyde1]

Actualy, I don't remember that one because I was on cross country that fall. I did get sharked though. The worst thing about the sports was that by the time study hall came around, just before lights out, I was just totally drained. My studies suffered horribly because of it.

Here's freedom to him who would read;
 
Here's freedom to him who would write;

None ever feared that the truth should be heard,

But them that the truth would indict.


--author unknown (circa 1914)

[Antigen]

On 2005-11-26 10:31:00, Anonymous wrote:


I don't believe I said nothing you had to say was valid, I simply questioned your presence and motives on this site, since you had never been to Hyde and had no personal frame of reference.  (And I don't believe I used the words "confused or resentful", so maybe you could find a link to that to refresh our recollection.  I could have, but doubt it.)

Well, I think I've made that pretty clear already. But here goes, once again. I've read about Hyde and find some of it's methods very similar to my own experience. Some ppl from Hyde have read up on other programs and also find some common ground. So, in an effort to learn more and better understand the whole thing, I sometimes like to talk to ppl who know something about Hyde.

Make sense?

If you look at this letter YES, it comes off as arrogant.  But if you put it in context, which is families in crisis, and really read what he's saying, I read it as:



1.  Your family is at Hyde because it is in crisis (typically) and thus there is a good chance that whatever you are doing is not working.



2.  Hyde has a system.  You have to give us some latitude and time to let it work.  If you don't or you fight us, our experience is that little in your family will change (unless you find another modality of transformation).



3.  The last sentence speaks for itself  

question Hyde, but don't second-guess it, simply find another school.

Uh, yeah, well, even toned down like that, that's pretty fucking arrogant, don't you think? It's easy to believe that all the dissenters go on to lead worthless, failing lives if you shun them and reject everything they have to say. That's yet another way in which Hyde is very similar to the Seed line of programs.

But it's just not the truth, sorry.

In fact, I regularly remember Joe Gauld showing people the door, and challenging them.  If they didn't trust, if they weren't open to trying something different, then simply leave.  Its as easy as that.  No captives.  No one is locked in their rooms.  The don't (didn't) chase run-aways or have students guarding other students like I heard they did at Seeds (but don't really know).

While, as another poster notes, he's already gotten the kids' family to agree to disown him as a means of coercing compliance in the Program. Gee, now where have I heard that before!

In any event, you can try and use this letter to validate your presence and claim Hyde=Seeds.  

Oh, thank you for giving me permission. And w/o having to go through the chain of command, too! I feel special! But that's not exactly what I was going to put in for permission to do. If it's not too much trouble, could you OK my permission to discuss Hyde w/ people (other than you) who have been there? And, now I know this is really pushing it and I don't want consequences, but can I please have permission to form my own opinions?

Thanks in advance
The farmer who you're cussin' w/ your mouth full.

Everything I ever heard about Seeds sounded much worse than Hyde, but again, since I don't know Seeds I won't make a comparison, because it lacks any real basis other than some minor reading I have done on that stream.


To that end I also won't go on the Seeds stream and talk about something that I know nothing about.

:rofl:

Brilliant! Just as long as you keep on avoiding any information, why then you can just go on believing that there's no similarity whatever, must be just all in my over active imagination.
 :rofl: Darlin', this may come as a total and utter shock to you, but we have frequent posters on the Seed forum who are just as dedicated and sincere in their support for the Seed and Art as you are in your suppport for Hyde. But there's absolutely no valid similarity, no siree Bob, not at all. Oh, you're gonna laugh so hard when you finally get the punch line! Well, maybe not. But I know some people will probably get a big kick out of it.

Antigen, I think your website is important.  SERIOUSLY IMPORTANT.  I also trust your motives and think you have a good heart. I just don't think its fair (IMHO) to transpose your experience on whatever you think Hyde is about."

You just keep on telling yourself that instead.

A Freudian slip is when you say one thing but mean your mother.

--Anonymous

[Anonymous]

Think what you want, the letter Joe Gauld sent out to parents tells it all!! Cult, Cult, Cult!!

[Anonymous]

On 2005-11-26 12:43:00, Antigen wrote:

"On 2005-11-26 10:31:00, Anonymous wrote:



I don't believe I said nothing you had to say was valid, I simply questioned your presence and motives on this site, since you had never been to Hyde and had no personal frame of reference.  (And I don't believe I used the words "confused or resentful", so maybe you could find a link to that to refresh our recollection.  I could have, but doubt it.)

You didn't answer the question.  Again.

So, in an effort to learn more and better understand the whole thing, I sometimes like to talk to ppl who know something about Hyde.


Make sense?

So let me get this right.  Statements like:

Joe Guald is in the business of utterly destroyoing and replacing familial affection, tradition and authority.

...aren't really an opinion or advocacy based on chosing which posters you believe or don't believe, this is just and attempt to "learn more and better understand the whole thing"?

Uh, yeah, well, even toned down like that, that's pretty fucking arrogant, don't you think? It's easy to believe that all the dissenters go on to lead worthless, failing lives if you shun them and reject everything they have to say. That's yet another way in which Hyde is very similar to the Seed line of programs.

If you have a system that requires a leap of faith, then you need to motivate people to make that leap.  Call it arrogance or whatever you want, but the truth is, for a lot of families, this was the truth.

Moreso the letter says nothing about what will happen to you if you leave ("lead a worthless life" etc.), so your comparrison to Seeds seems misplaced.  The creation and dissection of a straw man if you will.

While, as another poster notes, he's already gotten the kids' family to agree to disown him as a means of coercing compliance in the Program. Gee, now where have I heard that before!

Actually, they aren't asked to disown their kids.  They are asked to not accept them back into their house and force them to make their own way in the world.  It may be the school of hard knocks, but it worked for many (and failed some as well).

Oh, thank you for giving me permission. And w/o having to go through the chain of command, too! I feel special! But that's not exactly what I was going to put in for permission to do. If it's not too much trouble, could you OK my permission to discuss Hyde w/ people (other than you) who have been there?

Discuss away.  You have my permission.  But when you opine about it, then I would like permission to take issue with you since you weren't there, base your conclusions on whichever anonymous posts you choose to believe, and are otherwise a person who has a vested interest in advocating for the Troubled Teen industry.

And, now I know this is really pushing it and I don't want consequences, but can I please have permission to form my own opinions?

Why go there?  Did you really think I was being that patronizing?

Antigen, I think your website is important.  SERIOUSLY IMPORTANT.  I also trust your motives and think you have a good heart. I just don't think its fair (IMHO) to transpose your experience on whatever you think Hyde is about."

You just keep on telling yourself that instead."

Once again I try and offer an olive branch and acknowledge that this site actually has value....maybe dramatic value....and you see the negative.  Whatever Anti.  Sorry you are so bitter.  Good heart or not, that can't be a fun place to live.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-11-26 10:52:00, Lars wrote:

"And while we're on the topic, I also recall a couple of faculty members getting in my face in a very threatening way, as if they were going to assault me (Don MacMillan & Gary Kent).  Totally inappropriate.  It wouldn't suprise me to find out that stuff like that still happens.



As for Joe G.?  He's a drunken (I smelled it on his breath several times) egomaniac bully.  F%^k him and the horse he rode in on!



"

Some things never change Lars.  Don McMillan was the same one who around 4 or 5 years ago attacked a student during Family Weekend!!  He grabbed him around the neck and pinned him against the wall.  It is unbelievable that this man has a history of this type of assaults on students, and yet the school keeps him in a high position.  

IMHO Hyde overlooks lots of bad behavior by their staff, especially the ones who are related to the Gauld family or have been friends with them for years.  McMillan is one of those!  Same thing happened with Mr Dubinsky.  Did you know him when you went to Hyde?  He is the one someone else wrote about in another post.  I complained to one of the advisors at Hyde about Dubinsky, but they put it back in my lap and told me I should tell him he was making me feel uncomfortable.  Can you imagine this kind of response?  They wouldn't do a thing about him bothering all of us.  He was considered "family."