Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Hyde Schools
NOTICE TO POTENTIAL PARENTS
HydeFan:
NOTICE: I AM NOT A HYDE REPRESENTATIVE AND DO NOT SPEAK FOR HYDE. THE FOLLOWING IS SIMPLY MY PERSONAL OPINION. SINCE THE SUBJECT MATTER IS VERY COMPLEX, WHAT I WRITE WILL BE NECESSARILY INCOMPLETE!
Dear Potential Hyde Parents:
Based on my experiences at Hyde as a student, intern and aliumni, I am an unabashed Hyde Fan. Realizing it is not worth my time to respond ad naseaum to every statement made on this website, I thought I would write my peace (sic) and leave you to make your own informed opinion.
1. THE MOST IMPORTANT DECISION YOU WILL EVER MAKE, is a decision that you make over and over, every day, and that is how to best care for your child. I commend you for getting to this site and for putting the most possible effort you can into making yourself the best parent possible and making the smartest, most imformed, most humane, most loving decisions you can for your child.
2. IMHO, THIS WEBSITE HAS A DOMINANTLY NEGATIVE BIAS. This website is full of people with a lot of mixed motives. Fundamentally, this is not a website for people to come and express pro's and con's, this is primarily a website for people who either (a) did not have a good experience at Hyde, or (b) have no relationship to Hyde, but have a political agenda about all schools they believe could be Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform schools. What you will not get here is a lot of the people who are Hyde supporters, NOR an ability to determine relative numbers.
3. RESULT OF WEBSITE BIAS - THE CON. I do not discount some of the things said on this side by families who went to Hyde, but my experience is that the results are fairly skewed. People who had a good experience with something typically don't spend a lot of time looking for a place to go rave about it. They send in their annual alumni contributions, they read school newsletters, and they remember their experience with the full range of emotions that it meant to them.
4. RESULT OF WEBSITE BIAS - THE NUMBERS. One of the questions you must face then, is whether you are reading the views of a vocal minority, or something more systemic. Many on this website will presume to answer that for you. I don't really know the answer quantitatively, I simply have my own long-term experience with Hyde that says there a LOT of people for whom Hyde was profound and life-transforming. I know that Hyde has been somewhat contraversial, but has generally received aplomb in the national press, that many of Hyde's alum have gone on to be leaders in society (business, politics, etc.) and for what its worth, the children of a good number of rich and famous have and are attending Hyde.
5. MOTIVES OF PARTICIPANTS. As a result of the inherent and structural bias and nature of the beast, it may seem like a large number of people are dissatisfied. Truth is, since almost everyone here is anonymous, it is hard to determine numbers, have a meaningful discussion, or ascertain bias. Clearly, some just want a place to blow off steam about their experiences at Hyde. I support that. Some are out to change the world, and I support that as well, but I would caution you to take any comment of an anonymous participant with a grain of salt (and mine too for that matter)!
6. HYDE IS HARD. I don't think Hyde is for everyone, and if you are looking for a fix it school and are not willing to look at yourself and grow as part of the process, Hyde is probably not for you.
7. THEORY. I think some of the posters on this website may have encountered some level of abuse. And on some level, that happens at every school, public/private/alternative. Right or wrong, I also think that many of the most angry and vocal simply never got it. By it I mean, they never understand the "whys" of Hyde's process in any deep soulful way, and certainly never embraced its principles. As you might be aware, the human psche is a heavily defended creature, and people will go to great lengths to have to avoid taking a real look at themselves, their family, their lives and then tell the truth about it. Some here don't even see this as important or anyone else's business. And some of these people self-confess to blaming Hyde for their station in life 30 years later. That alone should, IMHO, give you pause. And if you do a search for my posts on this site, you will see discussions where others make fairly outrageous claims, that so far have turned out to be bald-faced lies. This should also give you pause enough to realize that angry people do no always tell the truth (nor do brainwashed people as no doubt I will be accused of being), so as there might be clear motivations for any pro or con comment to be either an exaggeration or outright fabrication, you must decide veracity for yourself!
8. THE TEST. Here is a really simple test for you. For any claim here that really bothers you, call Hyde and see what they have to say. Go up and stay at the school for a few days and talk to random people and see what they have to say. Ask to speak to someone on 2-4. Ask about any scandal you want. If you are answered openly and honestly then you got your answer, but trust that you will know what's honest and what isn't without having to take the word of an anonymous poster. Here is my belief: The truly abusive schools are closed societies. They will not let you in to observe anything closely, and will pretend to give you reason why. NEVER TRUST YOUR CHILD TO ANY SCHOOL THAT WON'T LET YOU SEE EVERY PIECE OF IT, AND IF THAT INCLUDES HYDE, SO BE IT, BUT I DON'T THINK IT DOES. The point is, don't take anyone's word that it will or won't, just go ask! If you don't like what you see and they can't explain it to your satisfaction, then again, its probably not for you.
9. MAJOR HYDE PROBLEMS (ALLEGED AND OTHERWISE).
a. Faculty Turnover. This is a real issue, but its not necessarily a scandal. I don't know the real numbers, not sure anyone here does, and you should ask for those. But in the same way Hyde is tough for students and families, it is tough for faculty. It requires a commitment way above and beyond the usual teacher, probably for less pay (at least per hour), and like some families where there is not a good fit, I am sure some staff are selected only to discover its not a good fit.
b. Academics. I don't have a sense of how Hyde really ranks currently. I do see the annual list of where the graduates are going to college....and the list is long and the college selection seems applicably broad-based. Hyde probably isn't an Ivy League feeder, but (if I recall correctly) has maybe a few each year who achieve that as well.
c. One-Size-Fits-All Approach. I get a little confused by this comment. Pretty much every school has this, include public and prep. I think this comment more appropriately translates into, this school operates on a certain belief system I didn't like or don't agree with. For sure there are schools with basically no structure (free schools), and schools where you can get one-on-one guidance and support for your child ($$$$$), but otherwise, in the realm of financial reason, you will be forced to choose a school with a bias. And that bias will be applied across the board. Its the only cost effective way to run a school. It really comes down to, what are the rules and expectations for me as a parent, and for my child as a student, and do they fit my own vision.
d. FIX-MY-TEEN-INDUSTRY. Some on this site will tell you that Hyde fits into the fix my teen industry. I disagree. To the extent that is someone's perception, I think they are wrong about Hyde--and a good reason they failed there is because the family wouldn't grow with the teen. Personally, I was rejected from admittance to Hyde because my family was not ready to grow with me. I saw this happen in a number of cases, and part of the reason the interview is so intensive is that Hyde will not just accept anyone, so they are evaluating the entire family in the interview process to see if the conditions needed for collective change are present. IMHO, the real fix-my-teen industry wants your money, puts the child into harsh conditions to make them grow up and then presents the finished product back to the parents for approval. (Read some of the posts on the Seed forum to this effect.)
e. HYDE'S TOUGH LOVE. On the topic of tough love, and whether it works for all, I would say, lets first define what we are talking about, and to agree that of course, no one program works for everyone. On the first part, what seems to happen in many families is that they set standards of acceptable behavior outside of which certain behaviors will incur certain consequences. When pressed, however, many parents are not will to step up and implement those consquences when the child test these boundaries, resulting in the child believing boundaries don't need to be respected. For me "tough love" is just a unphemism for, we Hyde school require of both ourselves and you the parents to live up to our own and your own stated consequences with the child, however hard that may be.
f. Scandals. This one seems a bit amazing to me. The only reason why a lot of information about Hyde is public is because much more than most institutions which I have experienced in my life, they air their dirty laundry. Every school and I would argue every person has it, its just whether or not they hold it in or let it out. Hyde may not always achieve this, but (again IMHO) they sincerely try to hold themselves to the same standards as the students and resond accordingly. Many will take issue with this, but the evidence should speak for itself.
g. LGATs. One member on this list will simply regurgitate how HYDE's process uses LGATs and how those have been completely discredited. From wikipedia: "Large Group Awareness Training or LGAT is a mechanism for promoting awareness change and rapid, thorough commitment to a cause or idea. LGATs tend to be brief but intense sessions of a few hours or days in which, ideally, participants adopt the message of the 'training' promptly and enthusiastically. Historically, LGAT origins trace back, at least in part, to the encounter group movement of the 1960s. Current examples of LGAT programs would include Landmark Education, Neuro-Linguistic Programming, Lifespring, Tony Robbins seminars, etc."
This definition certainly does not apply to Hyde, nor are the listed items inherently bad (NLP is in fact used by many therapists today, and is widely viewed as a very viable medium for change). For the bad ones (EST/LANDMARK FORUM), Hyde is in no meaningful way similar to these programs. The key thing to note about the anonymous person continually posting about LGATS is the lack of definition, lack of posted references, and and lack of indentification which parts of HYDE's program might fall therein.
The best article I found on the topic is at http://skepdic.com/lgsap.html and I reiterate, by this definition, these types of LGAT have no commonality with Hyde's process. [EDIT: Found another great piece on LGATs..... http://perso.wanadoo.fr/eldon.braun/awa ... lgat1.html -- and these again are completely different from they Hyde experience in seminars.]
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I will add onto this post in the future, but this is a start and I will try and keep it fresh rather that debating anonymous streams of people who never attended Hyde, or attended and had troubles for good reasons, or even those with legitimate beefs. Again no school or system is 100% perfect.
I hope this has been of some help.
========================
FOLLOW ON NOTES:
Just so you can keep track of the profiles here:
TommyFromHyde1: He went to Hyde for Summer School and 1/2 a school year, running away three times, the last in January of 1977! His desire to shut down Hyde and any similar schools because 30 years later he's just getting in touch with his feelings. His real name is Tom Allan. He posts a lot of stuff on here like he knows Hyde inside out.
Sample Post URL: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... tart=#1253
Post URL: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =30#112674
Oppositional Defiance: Likely a former Marine. AKA
Black Francis the 2nd
Email- skiesel93@hotmail.com
One time I was sent on 2-4 because my SONOFABITCH "friend" Rob Ebling ratted out to Dean's Area that I told him that I knew that Jesse Wang had cigarrettes. This was during a "bust". During a bust sometimes half the fucking school would be on 2-4.
Antigen: Runs this website and has a vested interest in promoting anything she thinks is part of the troubled teen industry. Never went to Hyde. [ This Message was edited by: HydeFan on 2005-11-11 02:06 ]
Troll Control:
"Shoreland" shines a light on Gulag schools like Hyde
Anonymous
Unregistered User Posted: 2005-08-17 09:29:00
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Ingeborg Lauterstein's new novel shines a light on the "fix my teen" industry, which Hyde and other schools fall into. She is my mother and I survived Hyde School back in the mid-80's. This was right when Gauld came back and took the school over. While some of the problems that Gauld saw in society and education were very real, the "tough love" approach his schools use do not always work. In my case, Gauld made sure that I was out of his school and could not graduate. This all happened close to the end of the school year. As a direct result of his efforts, my choices in college were limited and my entire life since has been impacted. I am not making this up. It turns out that a brand name education, followed by that all important first and second jobs affects your future a lot more than anything Gauld could ever offer in terms of character. It took years and years, but now at 38 I finally get paid an o.k. wage, but only on a freelance basis. Of course the novel is about a lot more than these brainwashing centers that pass themselves off as schools, it's about family and what that means and it is funny, maybe too funny for my tastes.
Troll Control:
On 2005-10-06 05:52:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"I'd be really careful dealing with ANY "emotional growth" program. Remember, these are NOT "schools." Most have unaccredited academics and cannot issue diplomas, so as far as "school" is concerned, you'll have an 18-year-old with a 9th grade education and in serious need of remediation.
Please continue your good research and critical thinking. Be sure to read up on LGAT (Large Group Awareness Training), as nearly every single "program" is based upon this philosophy.
Please read threads about other facilities you are considering. If you have questions, please ask.
"
You are right about academics and the quality of "teachers" at Hyde. I know one former Hyde student who left because the parents were very concerned about her education. She was in 11th grade at Hyde. When she interviewed for a spot in a local private school the admissions counselor stated the work she was previously doing was more on a 8th or 9th grade level.
The above is only one of the reasons you should not base your decision on Hyde's marketing materials. At Hyde, Character comes before education, but in life you have to have both and Hyde is not qualified to teach either.
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Post URL: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=D#138159
Dysfunction Junction
Frequent poster
Joined: 2005-03-06
Posts: 595 Posted: 2005-10-06 05:52:00
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I'd be really careful dealing with ANY "emotional growth" program. Remember, these are NOT "schools." Most have unaccredited academics and cannot issue diplomas, so as far as "school" is concerned, you'll have an 18-year-old with a 9th grade education and in serious need of remediation.
Please continue your good research and critical thinking. Be sure to read up on LGAT (Large Group Awareness Training), as nearly every single "program" is based upon this philosophy.
Please read threads about other facilities you are considering. If you have questions, please ask.
_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality."
-Arnold Schopenhauer
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Post URL: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=D#138116
Anonymous
Unregistered User Posted: 2005-10-06 04:27:00
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I am new to this board. Someone recommended that I look at this board as part of my exploration of schools.
I have looked into many schools and talked with many educational consultants and parents about their advantages and disadvantages. I have to say that my strong impression is that Hyde is in a class by itself, in many respects. Thus far I have not encountered this kind of intense debate about a school's model and program. Controversies about Hyde, alleged scandals at the school, etc., are very disturbing. My overall impression is that Hyde has a relatively small number of passionate supporters who buy into the model and a huge number of equally passionate critics. I can't say I've ever encountered more sustained criticism about a school and its treatment of students and parents (although Hyde certainly has its fans, as this board shows). While some of Hyde's critics on this board seem to take potshots and provide only superficial (and occasionally immature) criticisms, I'm very impressed with the number of very thoughtful, insightful and intense comments from a number of parents (and students perhaps?) who seem to know Hyde very well.
It seems clear that Hyde has one model that it tries to impose on every student. If it's true that Hyde accepts many students with major behavior and mental health issues (that's the strong impression I'm getting), that approach is very troubling to me. If I've learned anything over the years, it's that programs need to be sensitive to kids' individual needs. For that reason, primarily, I wouldn't consider sending my child to Hyde. The Hyde model seems very superficial compared to what I've heard about other schools; it may work well for some, but I get the impression that it doesn't work well for many and that the attrition rate is very high.
I'm also very troubled by what sounds like Hyde's very doctrinaire approach and dominance by one family and its close allies. Reading the comments on this site from a couple of Hyde supporters, I sense a strong tone that's rather patronizing, admonishing, defensive, and finger-pointing. I haven't picked up that attitude in my conversations with parents and staff of the other schools I've explored. Is that style typical of what one finds at Hyde?
I should also add that I recently chatted with two experts in the boarding school world who expressed serious concerns about Hyde's "arrogance" and "doctrinaire" style. These education professionals are very well informed and were able to offer thoughtful insights about a whole range of schools. This pattern of feedback is steering me away from Hyde. My strong sense is that there are other schools for struggling adolescents that are a much better fit.
Troll Control:
It is quite humorous that HydeFan keeps admonishing people for speaking the truth because one of the sayings at Hyde is, "Truth Over Harmony" in other words don't worry about keeping harmony, rather it is important to speak the truth and put yourself out there.
I agree there are legitimate concerns for the teachings and indoctornation of Joe Gauld. As he gets older he seems to be more out of control if he CANNOT CONTROL.
Let us not forget Hyde is now in the public sector ie DC, New Haven. Hyde recently opened up another "Charter School" in Oakland California and is also in the process of opening up one in NYC. I think it is of the utmost importance to inform the school system of NYC about Hyde's practices and destructive patterns. If you have any ideas, let the rest of us know.
Anonymous:
Hyde Fan is entitled to his take on Hyde. He clearly is a Hyde Fan, but don't just go by Hyde Fan's very well written marketing letter.
As a Hyde Parent I can say that going to the school and being taken around on tour by one of the star pupils was not productive and in fact gave me a false view of the school. What a parent needs to do is to sit in on a seminar or better yet ask to be a part of a Family Weekend. This will give you a good indoctrination, but it will never happen because Hyde will never allow it.
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