Author Topic: Anchor Academy for Boys in Havre, Montana.  (Read 67985 times)

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Offline BuzzKill

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« Reply #240 on: October 25, 2005, 11:45:00 PM »
//but to expect your child to be instucted on the bible/religion in 'public' school makes no sense whatsoever. //

I tend to agree; but what I was thinking of was elective classes on the Bible as literature and History; or, in student lead Bible studies held out side of class instruction  (or a study of Tora or the Koran or whatever) like the chess club or Key clubs and so on. There is no reason this could not be permitted in public schools, as long as it is elective.

//Just as in programs, parents have NO idea what misinformation/ideas/beliefs the 'caring' adults they spend their day with are planting in their impressionable minds.//

Precisely why I say the limits of instruction in grade school ought to be more strict. But these limits should apply to the teachers, not the students. Suspending a child from grade school for passing out cards with a Christian message is outrageous.


///Good point... but it wasn't the argument. ///

Well, I didn't intend for it to be, but it seems it was. All I wanted to point out was the fallacy of the 'Roloff' argument. There is no wall of separation; and he can not use his faith as a shield against the states interest in protecting its citizens.
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Offline AtomicAnt

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« Reply #241 on: October 26, 2005, 12:00:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-10-25 20:45:00, BuzzKill wrote:

"//but to expect your child to be instucted on the bible/religion in 'public' school makes no sense whatsoever. //



I tend to agree; but what I was thinking of was elective classes on the Bible as literature and History; or, in student lead Bible studies held out side of class instruction  (or a study of Tora or the Koran or whatever) like the chess club or Key clubs and so on. There is no reason this could not be permitted in public schools, as long as it is elective.



//Just as in programs, parents have NO idea what misinformation/ideas/beliefs the 'caring' adults they spend their day with are planting in their impressionable minds.//



Precisely why I say the limits of instruction in grade school ought to be more strict. But these limits should apply to the teachers, not the students. Suspending a child from grade school for passing out cards with a Christian message is outrageous.





///Good point... but it wasn't the argument. ///



Well, I didn't intend for it to be, but it seems it was. All I wanted to point out was the fallacy of the 'Roloff' argument. There is no wall of separation; and he can not use his faith as a shield against the states interest in protecting its citizens.



"


I received my ACLU report. In it they mention they are defending a second-grader's right to religious expression. The girl wanted to sing "Awesome God" at an after-school talent show. The school, fearing it would appear to be favoring a relgion refused to allow her to sing it. The ACLU is claiming that no reasonable observer would think the school endorsed the religious message and so this was not grounds to deny her choice of song.

People usually think of the ACLU joining the opposite side, because they get more press for that. The fact is that they support just as many cases siding with freedom of religious expression.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #242 on: October 26, 2005, 12:45:00 PM »
Yeah, ACLU is a pretty cool organization. At least, I often agree w/ their positions on different issues.

However, I think they're just scampering around the edge of this one.

Look, there is absolutely no need in our society for another expensive, ineffective layer of elective school courses in religion. If you want your kid to learn all about religions, get them out of school so they'll have enough time to study then send or take them to various churches, libraries and Bible/comparitive religion studies. Any kid w/ reasonable intelligence and a sincere interest can surely educate themselves well enough by the time they're about 16 to handle seminary or college level course work.

How about other hot topics. How about economic facts and attitudes? I was shocked when I read the introductory chapter of my daughter's 9th grade economics book. According to McGraw, our value to society and the economy begins and ends with our ability to tolerate our meaningless, disconnected job tasks in order to consume the products of everyone else's meaningless, isolated, boring jobs.

Fucking amazing! My dad and other mentors taught me that our value to society and the economy is to be producers of useful, innovative, quality products and services; to take care of ourselvs and our own, to save and invest and, hopefully, leave something of value to the next generation.

Again, glad I never paid attention in school!

Here's another nifty trick. Want your kid to be competent at handling money? Give them some money. It can be an allowance, earnings from a paper route or some other venture. As soon as they express an interest (usually by around age 3 or 4 if you take them with you pretty often when you go shopping) let them get a little practice at price shopping, counting change, figuring sales tax and so forth.

The way they do it in school? It's so silly it's hard to even believe reasonably intelligent adults can carry it off with a straight face. They manufacture cardboard or paper faccimilies of coins then drill the kids, on paper, w/ meaningless, redundant and boring questions that they haven't even asked.

Same with telling time. Rather than just explain how to read a clock and encourage the kids to try it whenever they have a need to know what time it is, they make them sit and entertain meaningless invented scenareos; again, not when they ask for it but whenever the curriculum authors and tweakers have decided they should think about it.

Life's just so much simpler than that.

Our nada who art in nada, nada be thy name. Thy kingdom nada, thy will be nada as it is in nada. Give us this nada our daily nada and nada us our nada as we nada our nadas and nada us into nada but deliver us from nada; pues nada. Hail nothing full of nothing, nothing is with thee.
--Ernest Hemingway, American author

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Offline Pastor

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« Reply #243 on: October 28, 2005, 02:50:00 AM »
"Yeah, ACLU is a pretty cool organization."

You gotta be kidding?
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hen truth compromises with error, it is always truth that loses, for error had nothing to give up in the first place

Offline Nihilanthic

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« Reply #244 on: October 28, 2005, 05:59:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-10-27 23:50:00, Pastor wrote:

""Yeah, ACLU is a pretty cool organization."



You gotta be kidding?  "


'sup there scardeycat.

Back in this thread trying to jack it off of anchor academy and YOU not being able to answer (well, youre damn sure good at making excuses) and make it about the ACLU?

I DONT THINK SO, PASTOR!

Dont turn this into anything about the ACLU - its not. Its about ANCHOR ACADEMY.

So, kindly start facing up to their link to the roloffs and the abuse, and do kindly stop trying to throw up chaff about the ACLU instead of coming clean.

What are you running from?


<bgsound src="http://www.naturesongs.com/cricket1.wav">

The college idealists who fill the ranks of the environmental movement seem willing to do absolutely anything to save the biosphere, except take science courses and learn something about it.


--P.J. O'Rourke

[ This Message was edited by: Nihilanthic on 2005-10-28 03:04 ]
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DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #245 on: October 28, 2005, 10:40:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-10-27 23:50:00, Pastor wrote:

""Yeah, ACLU is a pretty cool organization."



You gotta be kidding?  "


I thought you left?  :wink:

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #246 on: October 28, 2005, 06:35:00 PM »
okay... why when you load THIS page specifically, do I hear CRICKETS?? Turn on your speakers.. am I the only one? Should I start taking meds ? it's a chirping noise. am I missing something here?  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #247 on: October 29, 2005, 12:43:00 AM »
Maybe it's a "message" to PASTOR telling him to get real and do something about BROTHER DENNIS and this abusive school?
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Offline Nihilanthic

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« Reply #248 on: October 29, 2005, 04:03:00 AM »
Oh, there are crickets... its because of the akward silence pastor gives us whenever we ask him to answer a friggin' question!  :silly:

One does not have to appeal to God to set the initial conditions for the creation of the universe, but if one does He would have to act through the laws of physics.
--Stephen Hawking, English scientist

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DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline AtomicAnt

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« Reply #249 on: October 29, 2005, 09:17:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-10-27 23:50:00, Pastor wrote:

""Yeah, ACLU is a pretty cool organization."



You gotta be kidding?  "

What do you have against defending Civil Liberties? All the ACLU does is support people when their legal civil rights are being violated.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #250 on: October 30, 2005, 05:16:00 PM »
Is Pastor impling the ACLU is not a great organization?

If so, he has proven on more than one account in this thread he will not protect a human's rights. Wow, That just blows me away.....

What is funny here, is all we asked Pastor to do is PROTECT other Human beings but he refuses to see past the end of his own nose.

Don't drink the k00l-aide!
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Offline Helena Handbasket

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« Reply #251 on: October 30, 2005, 05:19:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-10-30 14:16:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Is Pastor impling the ACLU is not a great organization?



If so, he has proven on more than one account in this thread he will not protect a human's rights. Wow, That just blows me away.....



What is funny here, is all we asked Pastor to do is PROTECT other Human beings but he refuses to see past the end of his own nose.



Don't drink the k00l-aide!"


Too late... seems Pastor has already gone over the mortal (moral?) limit - he's had way too much to answer a simple question.
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uly 21, 2003 - September 17, 2006

Offline Antigen

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« Reply #252 on: October 30, 2005, 06:12:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-10-25 20:45:00, BuzzKill wrote:


I tend to agree; but what I was thinking of was elective classes on the Bible as literature and History; or, in student lead Bible studies held out side of class instruction  (or a study of Tora or the Koran or whatever) like the chess club or Key clubs and so on. There is no reason this could not be permitted in public schools, as long as it is elective.


Yes, there is a reason. Who's paying for these elective courses and the venues for the student led events? Me, that's who. Am I willing to pay to promote these ideas? Personally, no. And I'm not alone. I'd actually love to see drug policy reform activities that involve the student body.

In my view, an ideal curriculum of instruction would teach kids that pot is about the safest recreational drug going, though there are some minor risks, and that tobacco or alcohol will ruin your life if you don't mind and manage the dangers. I'd want them taught to understand the dangers of blind obedience and superior ways of thinking and getting along in the world.

I could go on and on. But my point is that many of my neighbors would disagree with me about what is important to teach, never mind what viewpoints are worth supporting or condemning. Therefore, I have no more right to demand that they pay for what I view as proper instruction of children than they have to insist that I pay to teach their children what I view as harmful propaganda.

In other words, education never has been the legitimate province of the public sector. We were yokels, though, 90 years ago when most of us first started flocking to the industrialized cities. We gave it a shot, with a hope and a prayer that it really would deliver at least half what was promised. And maybe it did; somewhere near half. But the best fruits of colectivism have been the lessons, which we can take right back with us up into the hills and out onto the prairies.

We have a very powerful imagined dependency on the experts and professionals to sort this stuff out. But we haven't got half the education, either in terms of rote knowledge or of the ability to reason, that our grandparents grew for themselves out of whatever culture they inherited. I think we should go back to the old, organic ways and try our luck. Call it faith, if you want, I won't even complain. :wink:

At the end of the day, we're arguing about how to bring about a curriculum for our children (Our own children!) that will be inoffensive to everybody. There's an old tribal (though, evidently quite nuanced and sophisticated) culture in China where the presentation of a blank sheet of paper rises to the level of a killing offense.

They've had thousands more years of relative peace and prosperity to work these things out. Maybe they're onto something?

Speculations on the Origin of Human Intelligence: "In defense of the Pygmies, perhaps I should note that a friend of mine who has spent time with them says that for such activities as the patient stalking and hunting of mammals and fish they prepare themselves through marijuana intoxication, which helps to make the long waits, boring to anyone further evolved than a Komodo dragon, at least moderately tolerable. Ganja is, he says, their only cultivated crop. It would be wryly interesting if in human history the cultivation  of marijuana led generally to the invention of agriculture, and thereby to civilization.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0345346297/103-2574067-9409467/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'>Carl Sagan - The Dragons of Eden - 1977

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #253 on: November 01, 2005, 03:39:00 PM »
:wstupid:
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Offline BuzzKill

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« Reply #254 on: November 01, 2005, 05:47:00 PM »
Hey Ginger -

I didn't mean that I think it is "Important" to have Bible classes - but rather, that as important as the Bible and Christianity are to Western civilization , culture and history, omitting all reference, as has become common practice, does a disservice to the student body.

As for elective classes that you'd rather not pay for - as you point out - this is always a problem. There are ALL kinds of things taught in public school, I'd rather not pay for.

All I am saying is, the students should not be denied these classes, if they want them, based on some imaginary constitutional prohibition.

Nor can this imaginary constitutional prohibition be used to shield a "religious" institution from state investigation and sanction, if they are hurting the state's citizens.

PS again -

I agree with you on the blight of public education.
Still, the fact remains, it is here to stay, no matter how much evidence one produces that it does more harm then good.
And so, like with the "regulation" debate - I simply feel we are beholden to make the best of any  ability we have to make a change for the better.
No - it won't solve the problem - but it might help make things better.[ This Message was edited by: BuzzKill on 2005-11-01 14:54 ]
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