seed'70

[Ft. Lauderdale]

Are you the marble floor Ricci C?  I probably know you. Private message me if you want.

[RicciC]

Yes and my father (God rest his sole) did the upstairs staff conference room. HOw do I private message?[ This Message was edited by: RicciC on 2005-11-06 13:36 ]

[Ft. Lauderdale]

See on the left side "Private Messages" click on it.
put in RICCC and your pass word and reead away.

[Ft. Lauderdale]

See on the left side "Private Messages" click on it.
put in RicciC and your pass word and read away.

[SMiamiPimp]

Robert Chunn! He was a black staff member and a barber(or was before the Seed). If that was the him, he was a great guy!

He was sincere and really wanted to see peaple succeed. In fact, a number of times I have helped peaple out, I had him in the back of my mind.

Ever hear what happened to him? I hope he has had a great life.

[SMiamiPimp]

RicciC,

I have pretty much the same view of the Seed as yourself, at least as I interpret your posts.

There are peaple who I recall.

There was one black dude, Leonard Pope. He was a tough, smart street hustler on the outside. I wonder what ever happened to him.

Or this red haired hard core biker, Randy.

Or this, tall what appreared to be fairly respected dealer on the outside, Marco.

I wonder what happened to those guys.

I met a guy from the Seed in Texas in the early 80's. I was at state road 84, he was at the Miami race track. I met him in the University of Texas MBA program. He got the highest starting salary with what was then the Big 8 pulic accounting firms. He was telling the partners in the firms he was interviewing about his misspent youth and being in the Seed. I think he used it as a differentiator.

A male friend who got put in the Seed after me, and would talk to me after I got kicked out, I just saw how he is working as a Librarian at a Junior college.

Interesting memories.

[RicciC]

I worked with him and Hank and Art's house alot.

[landyh]

On 2005-09-16 20:08:00, tom s. wrote:

"Anyone here remember the seed 1970?Innocently posing as a hippie house on S.E.3'rd st.Ft.Laud. I think with a big metal peacesign sculpture on the lawn about 41/2- 5 feet in diameter-yellow and also green.I thought it was a used jean store.I went running in there february '70 and found myself in a very Billy Jack community school-like group of people around my age-15 and younger and some older,and Art in a room w/a desk,Pam,a really sweet girl about 20 who cooked for the group,and a sort of innocent seeming ambling about of all,eventually evolving into a session.Anyone remember back that far?  "

I was there and I was nine years old and I remember Pam. I had forgot about the sign. Thank you.

[landyh]

On 2005-09-17 00:48:00, rjfro22 wrote:

"Tom S.

           I remember the house on 3rd ave.  in 1970

Did Pam  have long blond hair ?  , she was very beautiful from what I remember. I was about 16  at that time as well time and they served free meals,  which attracted a lot of the young street hippies at that time

Do you rmember Maureen, she was like a staff member,  and Hap and Mavis, I remember a wedding there as well, it was very Billy Jack like, that was a great discription. People came and went as they pleased. No one tried to make me cut my hair , lots of  hugging and genuine caring, it was a very special time. There was a record player up front with several of rock  albums .  I  remember   Maureen  getiing down to "Mississippi Queen" by Mountain.  I remember telling my friends about this cool place called the seed.  Every time some one knew came in we really wanted to help them, I remember really caring about everybody back then.  My friend Tom W. turned me on to the seed back then and he was only 14 at the time, we both Just walked in, and we were greeted with open arms, and of course a free meal , we used t hitch hike to the meetings from hollywood and some of the time someone would ride us home.  [ This Message was edited by: rjfro22 on 2005-09-17 00:54 ]"

I was there then and it was a great place at that time I was only nine which made me somewhat conspicuous for that time. It was a place of love then what happened for God's sake.

[landyh]

On 2005-09-17 17:50:00, tom s. wrote:

"I was somehow absorbed into being a participant.I remember being with them 6 months and then some more in '71.A bunch of us kids carried really heavy flagstones from down the street behind the seed at s. Andrews.These we placed down outside the house.As the rustic style floor became larger in area as we accumulated more of these flat stones,someone also built an overhead and presto-we had a meeting area much larger than the little cozy house we sadly left behind.At that point it appeared that the friendliness was washed away,but it existed more as an underground movement.I had appeared at the seed because I was running from my brother in law.I had to live w/my sister and him off and on because homelife was not  possible peacefully.Well neither was the solution.Eventually I  was placed into several other members' homes mostly to keep me apart from the flash point that would ensue from home life.Really,all I had to do was stand at the front door and an arguement would greet me-so-that was actually the basis for my mistaken entry into the orginization.The sessions at S.Andrews became heated.More staff members appeared.Charley Oats,Darlene,Rick and Linda-there's more but their names and faces don't always surface in clarity.Memory is sometimes like those magic eight-balls.You get what appears on the little window with a good shake!I remember when they got a pink toilet seat for what they would refer to as the hot seat.I think it was on a toilet.People got come down on hard.A lot of it was unnecessary.Many of us were accused of having attitudes of heavy druggies and we were entirely too young or inexperienced to know what in the world they were talking about.(Check my other post about the seed song)I was put on the hot seat because I liked someone.The girl was put on the seat because she was accused of playing games.Relationships were not allowed.But as youth flowers,so does the heart.I expect that's why so many cars that went by were accompanied by screams of "the seed sucks!!!"and so on.Those were humerous interludes spaced entirely too far apart.  "

Charlie still had long hair and was cool in my memory, Darlene even at nine I found that red head to be a little antagonistant shall we say as opposed to the word that comes to mind. Funny I remembered Mavis as being a New Yorker until I read your post and it clicked. And they were hugely helpful both her and Hap and loving and tough as nails all at the same time. I was so sad  when Hap and Mavis disapeared and Charlie especially I looked up to him so much that it made me really sad when he was gone.

[landyh]

On 2005-09-20 17:51:00, tom s. wrote:

"I don't recall a Dupont or any reps from anywhere.It seems in the time between my two seed sojourns they had absorbed a lot of new members,old staffers returned,and new ones knighted.Now I recall that Mavis Was there,so that means Happy was too.There were a few entrusted from the group to lead meetings and were possibly acting staff members.Renee was a tough n.y.B,but had an enduring sense of humor.Rick and Linda were a married staff couple of mediocre temperment.Rick was pretty funny.Linda was nice.Charley Oats appeared to be deeply sincere about learning human nature and discussing his lifes' mistakes in those terms.He was a great group leader and a tough staff member.He had a wiley way about him as though the nature of true deviousness was awash in his system and an incredibly believable infectious smile.His eyes twinkled when he did grin,but I could not pinpoint the something in myself that distrusted him.There was an indescribeable edge he had or exuded that perhaps not everyone picked up on.That feeling always made me darkly aware of his presence.He had his heart grabbed by Darlene who was just as deeply sly and a discussion leader and staffer of rank.She was tough and perhaps fair and reminded me of howdy doody-red hair-freckles-howdys'face-what can I say.I heard her and Charley got married.I even heard that they went and shot up together.I can't even imagine what that would have done to their relationship.There was a Maureen also.There was this young lady named Donna who by her good nature alone I think slid quietly into the upper echelon.We were all singing "When Irish Eyes Are Smiling"led by Art of course,and he was looking through the crowd inquisitively like someone trying to pinpoint a bacon-cheeseburger with their nose-and I realized what he was searching for.Quite a few of us caught on.It was the unmistakeable voice of an Irish Angel.My god what a voice.Art asked her if she wouldn't mind singing it for us all alone and she obliged.I gotta tell you I had goosebumps and tears!She was tall with dark hair and a very kind face and a nice disposition.I would love to hear her sing again.I believe she became a staff member,but I bet it was too strenuous or should I say her strength probably overcame the piousness necessary to continue in that mode.I draw a blank on other staffers but I know they were there.     "

Its funny I remember the little devious smile of Charlie but as nine year old kid i idealized him and he was always real good to me. I am a little mixed up was renee the little bitty junkie prostitute with really long hair or am I mixing her up with Libby?

[Antigen]

This is fascinating stuff! Thanks for posting it. The way you describe it, it seems like it started out w/o Art being the big goomba. Is that right? Were these other people more like peers in the beginning?

He, who has nothing, and who himself belongs to another, must be defended by him, whose property he is, and needs no arms. But he, who thinks he is his own master, and has what he can call his own, ought to have arms to defend himself, and what he possesses; else he lives precariously, and at discretion.
http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/a1_8_12s4.html' target='_new'> James Burgh 1774

[landyh]

On 2005-11-22 19:11:00, Antigen wrote:

"This is fascinating stuff! Thanks for posting it. The way you describe it, it seems like it started out w/o Art being the big goomba. Is that right? Were these other people more like peers in the beginning?He, who has nothing, and who himself belongs to another, must be defended by him, whose property he is, and needs no arms. But he, who thinks he is his own master, and has what he can call his own, ought to have arms to defend himself, and what he possesses; else he lives precariously, and at discretion.
 James Burgh 1774
"

Peers of Art or of us? I think Hap and Mavis felt like they were part of the leadership yet they related to the group and were in that sense peers. Still it was clear that Art was the vision and leader none the less but Hap and Mavis were mature self thinking adults who worked with Art I felt not for him. And Art at least came across as a vessal for this important work rather than a despotic individual. No doubt it was his vision. But the vision that was his i understood to be motivated by the intolerance within AA that goes on to this day to let people describe there experience with drugs. Another difference was that there were so many adults in the early program. Hardcore users even bikers and such. No very young kids at all really. So to me and I know some argue about the gateway theory but at least the collective experience of those early members reflected that they to a person everyone had started with pot and or alcohol.  No question that alcohol led me to a point even after two rounds at the seed to shooting coke and then heroin. Thank God alcohol kept me so broke and busy for a while that I never got too serious about it. Funny too I gave up pot long before my drinking was addressed. I think the peer pressure theory started to evolve out of the idea that it was peer pressure that got us into our problems and just it could in the reverse. For some it did and for some it did not and for some like me a little of both. I think I digressed a little from your point of interest but I guess this is just what one little boy saw and how he understood it.

[Antigen]

On 2005-11-22 20:34:00, landyh wrote:

And Art at least came across as a vessal for this important work rather than a despotic individual.

All despots see themselves as the vessal of some vision or other.

So to me and I know some argue about the gateway theory but at least the collective experience of those early members reflected that they to a person everyone had started with pot and or alcohol.

But the inverse isn't true. Most people who use any kind of psychotropics do not move on to harder drugs. If that were true, around half of my highschool graduating class would have been deadinsaneorinjail years ago. Yours?

I bet they all drank coca-cola and smoked cigaretts, too? Could those be the cause? I'm reducing this to the absurd, I know; but to make a point. A lot of things can play into someone having trouble w/ hard drugs. But pot doesn't seem to be one of them, except by way of venue.

When a man you like switches from what he said a year ago, or four years ago, he is a broad-minded person who has courage enough to change his mind with changing conditions. When a man you don't like does it, he is a liar who has broken his promise.
-- FRANKLIN P.ADAMS (1861-1960).

[landyh]

On 2005-11-22 20:58:00, Antigen wrote:

"

On 2005-11-22 20:34:00, landyh wrote:


And Art at least came across as a vessal for this important work rather than a despotic individual.

All despots see themselves as the vessal of some vision or other.

So to me and I know some argue about the gateway theory but at least the collective experience of those early members reflected that they to a person everyone had started with pot and or alcohol.

But the inverse isn't true. Most people who use any kind of psychotropics do not move on to harder drugs. If that were true, around half of my highschool graduating class would have been deadinsaneorinjail years ago. Yours?



I bet they all drank coca-cola and smoked cigaretts, too? Could those be the cause? I'm reducing this to the absurd, I know; but to make a point. A lot of things can play into someone having trouble w/ hard drugs. But pot doesn't seem to be one of them, except by way of venue.

When a man you like switches from what he said a year ago, or four years ago, he is a broad-minded person who has courage enough to change his mind with changing conditions. When a man you don't like does it, he is a liar who has broken his promise.
-- FRANKLIN P.ADAMS (1861-1960).

"

I agree with you actually I just was expressing how it made sense to me then in light of those I met with serious problems and there experience. And for me it was letting my guard down one worse thing at a time but nothing was ever so pervasive for me as alcohol.  But when you read my story in the other thread I think you will better understand that my gateway was escape.  In AA I can almost invariably fein a sort of awareness  regarding the women I meet there in that damn near all of them got there through some of same cause and effect relationships in there life that effected me. I can see it a mile away usually so its not intirely feined yet the problem is so pervasive amongst serious addicts of any kind that  yours odds are on to guess right. I'm still dazzling with my pyschic powers   :lol: