Author Topic: The Oxford Group  (Read 12127 times)

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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #30 on: September 26, 2005, 11:34:00 AM »
Quote

Thom Wrote:

 I remember at The Seed they used to say "Your higher power can be a light bulb or a door knob" sometimes I would whisper to the person sitting next to me, if they seemed to have a sense of humor, 'That's it? only a light bulb or a door knob?' (I was a smart ass long before drugs and stuff) Years later, it occurred to me that you usually need a door knob to enter a room, and then a light to see once you are in. Heavy...


Actually you are giving yourself way too much credit here. Simplistic is a better term..or how about diversionary? Go ahead and admit it, you made that up trying to fill in the blanks while thinking back and trying to turn chicken shit into chicken salad.

It is to most people Thom just plain and simple BULLSHIT. your XA is a religion and many of us don't wish to join. Describing God as a light bulb is bullshit, or as "THE GROUP" even more bullshit, piled higher and smelling even worse.  The problem Thom is that you steppers always think you have the magic bullet, and then you wanna go forcing it on the rest of us thru coercise techniques..the courts..locking kids up..you name it is has been done and continues to be so.

WE DON"T WANT YOUR STINKING RELIGION.

Thanks anyway.

Quote

'The Magical 12 Steps' have their roots in the Book of James. This James was the Brother of Jesus. AA, Oxford Group, Buchman, etc. didn't invent this stuff. It's a God thing.


More bullshit and your transparency continues thru your use of the word magical. It is not. and the book of James wasn't written by the brother of Jesus. See how you steppers can't even get your own religion right?


 and while we are on the topic, yes it is a "god" thing. Except it isn't presented as such. XA and so forth sucks you in with simplistic comments about "God being anything" but as you progress they say things like "maybe you aren't praying hard enough" or "praying properly". Tell us, how do you pray properly to a chair?  BULLSHIT again on your XA because they start out violating the first and most vlagrantly ignored rule from day one, diverting you from the real roots of the organization..God worship.

Quote





I believe the 12 step movement to be yet another opportunity presented by a loving, compassionate God,


And I don't. I think it to be the delusional process of a bunch of people that have voluntarily or otherwise joined a group that is conjoined by a sense of worthlessness, powerlessness, and other disjointed therories as to why they fuck up all the time.

Quote


I didn't "get it" If that seems like blasphemy to any 12 stepper, the problem is not mine.



Hey Thom, as to why the seed, the seed university, the seed thruout the land, seedlings returning to every community to bring the program there, the seed as the savior of america's youth,Seedlings as homo superior,  The totally honest and aware seedling, and all the other seed ideals that failed....

Do ya think that maybe this was because Art violated the tenants of your religion and only embraced 7 of the steps and then adopted coercise mind control and involuntarily lock down as replacements for the rest of those "magical" steps?

 :grin:
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #31 on: September 26, 2005, 12:21:00 PM »
No I think because it was mostly kids without years and years of damage. The other steps were not needed.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #32 on: September 26, 2005, 01:04:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-09-26 01:49:00, Thom wrote:

The hat pin thing...was that from his Army uniform hat? As far as the impact Mom's ultimatum had, I've never discussed it with him, so I don't have a legitamate answer. I would speculate, though, that it was less of an impact than that baseball bat would have had on his scull if Dad had caught up to him. Mom felt she was protecting us younger kids from a guy who by then had become a heroin user. Can you not appreciate what her intentions were? Mom and Dad (minus the bat) did their level best for us.


Yes, it was part of his uniform. He said it had been sticking into his forehead for something like two years.

But what's Crazy Mac w/ a baseball bat got to do w/ mom kicking Jack out? It was years later. Dad had moved out already.

And yes, I fully apreciate how rough both of our parents' lives were and why they did what they did. Had that conversation w/ Dad 20 years ago.

Did you know that, when he stopped in Stone Mountain on the way to DC, he actually tried to have me arrested on false charges? I know very well he was into the drink to an alarming degree there for awhile.

He apologized to me for all of that. He realized by then that much of the impetus for those radical moves had been pure bullshit.

That's the difference between us and you and the rest of the Hilliards. Mom was still coniving to force me into treatment for her imaginary drug problem as late as 15 years ago. That's when I quit talking to her.

As far as what was in the trailer, that's just about anybody's guess. When I was there w/ you in November, there was a Warbis family portrait on the wall. Next time I saw the place, someone had removed it. I wonder who did that and why? But then, you're all bug all nuts. Who knows why you people do anything that you do? I do miss the old man, though, and consider myself very fortunate to have made peace w/ him and had an authentic relationship for the last 15 or so years of his life. I'm still a little heartbroken that we can't do what he told us to and build a homestead on that land.


Impiety: Your irreverence toward my deity.
--Ambrose Bierce

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Offline Thom

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« Reply #33 on: September 26, 2005, 05:35:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-09-26 09:21:00, Anonymous wrote:

"No I think because it was mostly kids without years and years of damage. The other steps were not needed. "

Bingo!
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #34 on: September 26, 2005, 06:20:00 PM »
:rofl: Yeah, that must be it.

But wait a second. What ever happened to "we were all so fucked up we would have been deadinsaneorinjail within two years" line of bullshit? Now we weren't that bad off after all, so didn't need the full strength cure?

Your powers of self delusion never cease to amaze...


for it is a truth, which the experience of all ages has attested, that the people are commonly most in danger when the means of insuring their rights are in the possession of those of whom they entertain the least suspicion.    
--Alexander Hamilton



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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Thom

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« Reply #35 on: September 26, 2005, 06:35:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-09-23 04:09:00, GregFL wrote:

"Well Thom, do you propose to know which God   is the correct god to worship? Isn't this a tad blasphemous in the perspective of XA?

Don't forget your beloved XA only requires you to worship SOME god, even an inanimate object like a doorknob, or even a conceptual god like "the group"  in order to "get it". And then of course the magical 12 steps are then able to cure you of almost anything..including gambling, drugs, bad attitudes. But the magic powder that makes these steps work is God or at least a submission to a concept called "god", isn't that so?

BTW, care to share with us what your current involvement in the XA movement is?"

Quote
On 2005-09-26 08:34:00, GregFL wrote:

"
Quote

Thom Wrote:

 I remember at The Seed they used to say "Your higher power can be a light bulb or a door knob" sometimes I would whisper to the person sitting next to me, if they seemed to have a sense of humor, 'That's it? only a light bulb or a door knob?' (I was a smart ass long before drugs and stuff) Years later, it occurred to me that you usually need a door knob to enter a room, and then a light to see once you are in. Heavy...


Greg wrote: Actually you are giving yourself way too much credit here. Simplistic is a better term..or how about diversionary? Go ahead and admit it, you made that up trying to fill in the blanks while thinking back and trying to turn chicken shit into chicken salad.

Thom wrote: No, Greg. It really happened. I used that line more than once to get a laugh.


Greg wrote: It is to most people Thom just plain and simple BULLSHIT. your XA is a religion and many of us don't wish to join. Describing God as a light bulb is bullshit, or as "THE GROUP" even more bullshit, piled higher and smelling even worse.  The problem Thom is that you steppers always think you have the magic bullet, and then you wanna go forcing it on the rest of us thru coercise techniques..the courts..locking kids up..you name it is has been done and continues to be so. WE DON"T WANT YOUR STINKING RELIGION.

Thanks anyway.

Thom wrote: You are most welcome. So don't join! I don't believe the steps work for anyone who doesn't want them. I have never used the courts or locking kids up or any other involuntary means to force anything on anyone. I don't think it works that way.


Quote



'The Magical 12 Steps' have their roots in the Book of James. This James was the Brother of Jesus. AA, Oxford Group, Buchman, etc. didn't invent this stuff. It's a God thing.





Greg wrote: More bullshit and your transparency continues thru your use of the word magical. It is not. and the book of James wasn't written by the brother of Jesus. See how you steppers can't even get your own religion right?

Thom wrote: My use of the word magical was sarcasticly used in direct response to your question, quoted at the beginning of this post in which you refer to the magical steps. Greg, please enlighten me, Who wrote the book of James if not the Brother of Jesus?


 Greg wrote: and while we are on the topic, yes it is a "god" thing. Except it isn't presented as such. XA and so forth sucks you in with simplistic comments about "God being anything" but as you progress they say things like "maybe you aren't praying hard enough" or "praying properly". Tell us, how do you pray properly to a chair?


Thom wrote: Sorry, I wouldn't have a clue how to pray to a chair.


 Greg wrote: BULLSHIT again on your XA because they start out violating the first and most vlagrantly ignored rule from day one, diverting you from the real roots of the organization..God worship.


Quote


Thom wrote: I believe the 12 step movement to be yet another opportunity presented by a loving, compassionate God, to reach those who slip through the cracks of organized religion. People who, for whatever reason, don't feel comfortable walking into a 'church service', wheather it be fear of being judged, or because they have already judged the church goers. Today, I can commune with God where ever I am. Sometimes it happens to be in a church setting.



Greg wrote: And I don't. I think it to be the delusional process of a bunch of people that have voluntarily or otherwise joined a group that is conjoined by a sense of worthlessness, powerlessness, and other disjointed therories as to why they fuck up all the time.



Quote

Thom wrote: Hey man, to each his own. It is my personal belief, and it has been my experience that as long as I was stuck on a conceptual god, instead of moving on to a relationship with The Person God, I didn't "get it" If that seems like blasphemy to any 12 stepper, the problem is not mine. If I f'up at this point, having been exposed to truth, it is totally my responsibility. Greg, I get the distinct impression that you disagree with my life experience  :grin:


_________________
later, Thom

I think I know where I got off track! I thought the 11th step said 'Sought through beer and medication to remove our conscious contact w/ God...I plead lysdexia!

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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #36 on: September 26, 2005, 07:01:00 PM »
Ya' know, it's really not healthy to have an invisible friend past early childhood.

I cannot believe in the immortality of the soul.... No, all this talk of an existence for us, as individuals, beyond the grave is wrong. It is born of our tenacity of life -- our desire to go on living -- our dread of coming to an end.
--Thomas Edison, American inventor



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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #37 on: September 26, 2005, 11:49:00 PM »
no Thom, I disagree with coerced 12 step treatment. You say it "doesn't work that way" but then go on to discount every one who had a bad experience with the Seed or any other stepcult.

You are just immersed, swimming in this 12 step thing Thom. You seem not to be able to function without defining yourself thru it.  I think that is just plain sad.
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #38 on: September 26, 2005, 11:55:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-09-26 14:35:00, Thom wrote:

"
Quote

On 2005-09-26 09:21:00, Anonymous wrote:


"No I think because it was mostly kids without years and years of damage. The other steps were not needed. "


Bingo!"


Well, Bingo of a sorts....  http://fornits.com/anonanon/video/bingo.ram

The fact is, that is just more bullshit justifications you guys use.  Didn't need the rest of the steps?  How about didn't need any of them...the vast majority of us weren't addicts and never developed your particular compulsions Thom. Others became addicts AFTER the steps..what does that say for your beloved treatment model.

What is the success ratio of AA Thom?
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Offline Thom

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« Reply #39 on: September 27, 2005, 03:59:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-09-26 20:49:00, GregFL wrote:

"no Thom, I disagree with coerced 12 step treatment. You say it "doesn't work that way" but then go on to discount every one who had a bad experience with the Seed or any other stepcult."

Show me where I have discounted any one who had a bad experience with the Seed or any other 'stepcult' I try to keep it on myself. Show me where I haven't.
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Offline Thom

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« Reply #40 on: September 27, 2005, 04:03:00 AM »
Quote

What is the success ratio of AA Thom?

"

100 percent of those who want it, with the exception of some whose brains are too pickled to grasp it.
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Offline Thom

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« Reply #41 on: September 27, 2005, 04:06:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-09-26 15:20:00, Antigen wrote:

" :rofl: Yeah, that must be it.



But wait a second. What ever happened to "we were all so fucked up we would have been deadinsaneorinjail within two years" line of bullshit? Now we weren't that bad off after all, so didn't need the full strength cure?



Your powers of self delusion never cease to amaze...

Who are you quoting here, Ging? It isn't me.
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #42 on: September 27, 2005, 05:24:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-09-27 01:03:00, Thom wrote:

"
Quote


What is the success ratio of AA Thom?


"


100 percent of those who want it, with the exception of some whose brains are too pickled to grasp it."


Again, without your well polished diversionary skills..what is the success rate of AA?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #43 on: September 27, 2005, 10:14:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-09-27 01:03:00, Thom wrote:

"
Quote


What is the success ratio of AA Thom?


"


100 percent of those who want it, with the exception of some whose brains are too pickled to grasp it."


There are those too who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but they to can recover if they have the capacity to be honest.
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #44 on: September 27, 2005, 11:03:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-09-27 00:59:00, Thom wrote:

"
Quote

On 2005-09-26 20:49:00, GregFL wrote:


"no Thom, I disagree with coerced 12 step treatment. You say it "doesn't work that way" but then go on to discount every one who had a bad experience with the Seed or any other stepcult."


Show me where I have discounted any one who had a bad experience with the Seed or any other 'stepcult' I try to keep it on myself. Show me where I haven't."


You want me to pull out your anon and "other" posts Thom? Is that what you are asking?
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