White supremacist-A.A.connection

[Anonymous]

On 2005-08-29 21:55:00, Anonymous wrote:

"One thing that really pisses me off about the anonymous people is that they tell me I have to stop drinking. I never had problems with alcohol, just drugs. Why the fsck do I have to stop drinking?"

Yeah, that IS really annoying. When I was in 12 step, I made sure that I never did that to people. (Mainly because I never really felt that way or saw things that way. I didn't go around judging other people's drinking habits.) I was totally ok with other people drinking and doing drugs around me, too.

The way I see it, there's no way to tell *for sure* if someone else has a problem. They're the only ones who really know. Even if it's quite clear that another person may have a problem, it's none of your business. That's why I hate bullshit like interventions. The only way a person is going to quit using or drinking is if they want to. Someone else can't make them want to, or force them to. (And then the 12 step system contradicts itself by saying that "You have to do this for yourself and no one else!") What a load of crap.

It's fine if they keep to themselves, but once they start forcing their beliefs onto other people, that's when it gets annoying. That's why I hate the fact that 12 step has indoctrinated itself into our entire system of "recovery."

[Anonymous]

On 2005-08-29 21:42:00, Anonymous wrote:





What I don't like, however, is the institutionaliziation of the 12 step program. i.e. Go to jail or go to 12 step. And the fact that every single rehab in the country, for the most part, uses some form of 12 step ideology. That is total bullshit. It is extremely dangerous for our judicial and recovery system to believe in one way to solve the problems of alcohol and drug addiction and implement that into our drug rehab centers.



When I had to stop my habits, 12 step didn't work. It was too full of bullshit for me. I went to the meetings, I dealt with all the drama there, and the ridiculous meat market, and came to the conclusion that 12 step was only good for 2 things: getting laid and scoring drugs. I had to go with rational recovery, which thankfully, isn't a group, it's just a book. (A book that is banned by most rehabs, incidentally.) It also, by the way, totally slams 12 step, and does a very good job of doing so, and explaining why it doesn't work."

I agree.

[Anonymous]

This is absurd. People go to AA because they want to. If you're at AA and you're getting pissed because people are telling you to stop drinking, either...

1. You fucked up, got court-ordered there, and you might as well just shut the fuck up and thank god you're there instead of in the booty house getting your shit pushed in.

2. Some family member made you go, in which case just shutup and for once be cool with your family.

3. You're an idiot.

I'm putting most of my money on either 1 or 3. But you guys are out of control on these boards. Everything's a cult these days huh. Better keep your kids out of those after school programs. Those are all cults. Hope you blue collar mofo's aren't in any unions or anything. Those are definitely all cults. Shit man I'm a AAA member. Is that a cult too?

[Anonymous]

Well, like I said in my previous post, AA is way too unsuccessful in keeping its numbers to be any kind of cult, anyway. I do feel that some of its doctrines are a bit on the zealous side, but that is also entirely contingent on what meeting you go to, and that is key. There is no centralized power structure calling the shots. Just a bunch of junkies and drunks drinking coffee and meeting in church basements.

But you contradicted yourself. You said that people went to AA because they wanted to, which I am fine and dandy with. But then you listed "you were court ordered to" as an example. Would that count as someone "wanting" to go to AA? No. That is someone being forced to go to AA. And actually, I know of people who have chosen 30 days in jail over 12 step, by the way. They came out and said they didn't regret their decision. Mainly because a lot of times, the jail sentence is a lot shorter than the AA sentence. (30 day jail sentence vs. 90 days of AA with 1 meeting a day, 5 days a week.)

This was my issue, the institutionalization of one method of recovery. (A method, I might add, that has proven to be unsuccessful time and time again, by AA's own numbers.) It has nothing to do with whether or not AA is a cult. It has to do with putting all of your eggs in one basket.

Would I myself choose jail? Hell no! I would just sleep through the meetings. But then again, I wouldn't let my addiction get so bad that I would get into it with the law to begin with.

[Anonymous]

Where do you get any evidence that Manson was involved with A.A.? I'd think he'd be too smart for that ...

[Anonymous]

I didn't contradict myself. You just weren't reading what I wrote correctly. I said that people go to AA because they want to, and there are really only 3 situations where someone is at AA but don't want to be; because of the courts, their family, or because they're stupid.

I thought of another cult for you guys to go chase down. Preschool! Man that is just a breeding ground for brainwashing, cult activities. Seriously, we gotta get Son of Serb and Shanlea and all the big guns on this one right away. With any luck we can rid this country of fingerpainting and freeze tag within the year.

[Anonymous]

Yes,I realize it is difficult to clearly define the dissimilarities of finger painting,freeze tag and murder yet I believe it is important to try.
In much the same way I believe the similarities of a KKK hood and Alcoholics Anonymous sleazy anonymity should be examined.
Give me a crayon.

[Anonymous]

Haha this is just getting out of hand. Sure, attack some aspect of AA if you have a problem with it. But you gotta keep it under control...people are coming on here and crying for the outright elimination of alcoholics anonymous because some jackass who ran a sober is also a racist pig. Seriously, what does he have to do with a bunch of recovering alcoholics trying to piece their lives back together in a church basement.

I guess I'm just taking a lot of offense to this whole thread because it's touching home. By no means do I support this white supremacist guy or anything he stands for. I think racism is just disgusting. But I also know a few good friends who owe a lot of who they are today to what AA brought to them. I also overcame a serious drinking problem, although I didn't bother with the AA route.

Do whatever it takes to bring this guy down! But let's not start attacking all of AA and all of the people doing some hard, very personal work within it.

[Anonymous]

I meant "some jackass who ran a sober house" by the way.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-08-31 07:47:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I didn't contradict myself. You just weren't reading what I wrote correctly. I said that people go to AA because they want to, and there are really only 3 situations where someone is at AA but don't want to be; because of the courts, their family, or because they're stupid. "

Oh ok, my mistake.

I'm still confused as to the relevance regarding the white supremacist and his AA tie-in. You can find AA meetings of almost any type. Race-specific, class-specific, hell's angels, gay, leather/SM, Christian fundamentalist, I'm sure there are white supremacist ones, too. In fact, I'd be willing to put down money that there are. There are lots of different types of kooky and non-kooky meetings out there. I still think that this guy's bigotry is more of the issue than the AA thing is.

Maybe because there are SO many different kinds of people who have come out of AA/NA, that it really doesn't matter. It's quite common for someone at some point to have had an experience with some sort of 12 step program if they have had a problem with addiction in their past. It's the natural first thing for most people to try when they want to quit, because it is so well known. (And because there really isn't anything else out there widely known about, besides doing it on your own.)

And as for the recovery house. That confuses me, too, because as far as I know, AA/NA don't "have" recovery houses, or associate themselves with them. Their style may be used in meetings in rehabs and in the recovery house, but I've never heard of an AA/NA recovery house. Is that new? Do they also have waffle houses?

[Anonymous]

From what I know, these "recovery" houses, better known as "sober houses", are not actually run by AA. People who go to the same meetings connect with each other, and since a lot of them have really hit rock bottom, living situations for them are a pretty big priority. Quite a few are living on the streets, others are bunked up in overcrowded and dilapidated houses, some have just packed up and moved to a new town and are completely on their own, others still just kids looking to get out from under their parent's roof.

No matter the circumstances, these people meet at their respective AA meetings and go in on a lease together for a good sized home in a decent part of a city, and then just bunk up 1 or 2 to a room and commit to keeping each other sober. Once one of these places starts running smoothly, the people living there have a much better chance to get on their feet and get their shit straightened out. Eventually they find someone (usually new members of their meetings) to take over their spot in the house and share of rent, and they move on to bigger and better things.

It's not like AA trusted this racist guy to run a safehouse in the sense of the places cedu kids used to get sent when they were "unsafe" or had just gotten caught running away. If this guy had a sober house under his name, that was just between him and the people who wanted to live with him. AA really had nothing to do with it other than providing the forum for meeting.

These sober houses are lifesavers for the people that utilize them. It is a near impossibility to hold down a job when you don't have a home to go to at night. While these places get a little bit crowded and aren't the ideal place to live, they are crucial in helping some recovering alcoholics turn their lives around!

[Anonymous]

The great mythological "If I drink I'm going to die" schmackdrabble."I know what will happen if I drink" bleh,bleh,bleh.

Without fear generating techniques and mindsets such as this the entire hierarchial structure of A.A. falls apart.When you need an influx of a hundred people in order to cull perhaps five members,it becomes imperative to produce as much fear as possible,so of course that's what they do.

If newcomers are the lifeblood of the program,experienced A.A. cultists are parasitic leeches, bloating with satisfaction at the prospect of enjoying someone else's misery and gleefully anticipating an opportunity to take control over somebody.

Brainwashing is an interesting phenomenom.Even though it is possible to reject the bulk of a programming regime, subtle fabrications such as these become entrenched in the victim's mind,and produce consequences consistant with the cults
warped desires.

Without fear,supremacist cults would cease to exist as well.

[Apocalyptic Schizo Snakem]

Alcoholics Anonymous Must Die.

[Anonymous]

You're both just stupid. There's really nothing else anyone can say to you. Except maybe, you're both complete idiots.

So this one fool who's been going off on AA throughout the entire thread, I'm gonna guess that he's one fucked up individual. His life sucked, he went to cedu, his life still sucked, he probably went to aa, his life still sucks to this day...see the pattern? This person is just a straight up miserable person, and I'm guessing he blames everyone in his past for that fact.

[Antigen]

I think the importance of the AA connection is that so many people seem to give other members the benefit of the doubt just because they're fellow members. So it's not a bad idea to remember, once in awhile, that just because someone identifies, even very strongly, w/ AA doesn't mean they're overall great folk. It doesn't mean they even hold the same notion of what AA is all about as you do.

It's like any other religious, racial or social bigotry. Many Christians assume all professing Christians must be the good folk. Then Pat Robertson goes and takes out a hit on the elected president of a friendly nation.

With soap, baptism is a good thing.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer