Author Topic: Former Staff, please respond, question on the Dead, Insane,  (Read 8247 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Former Staff, please respond, question on the Dead, Insane,
« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2005, 11:10:00 PM »
Fighting is underrated.
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Offline shady grove

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« Reply #31 on: September 12, 2005, 06:53:00 PM »
I believe the anon is the famous RTP. The language/terminology is very similar to some   earlier posts.

You state a lot of certainties that you simply can't know...no one could know. It seems you have a problem with 12-step dogma and reverse logic but I am seeing these things in your post glaringly. Albeit a very intelligent confrontation of 12-step groups (ok stepcraft if you like). It falls short when one asks, who cares? If it works for one, how can you possibly argue with that? Are you also questioning whether addiction even exists? We're not gonna take THAT many steps backward are we?

I can't help but feel you have a personal vendetta. What the problem is? :???:
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Offline shady grove

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« Reply #32 on: September 12, 2005, 06:55:00 PM »
BTW, I'm sure I misquoted you. So sorry, I'm ready for the beating :wave:
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #33 on: September 12, 2005, 09:55:00 PM »
The only REAL addiction to anything is physical addiction, the kind that yields withdrawals. The rest is pure bullshit. (not RTP)
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #34 on: September 12, 2005, 10:06:00 PM »
Trust me, RTP has about a hundred more i.q. points than anyone still stuck in the 12-step shit. Now that doesn't make him better than anyone, it just makes him more likely to have something interesting to say.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #35 on: September 12, 2005, 10:09:00 PM »
...and your point, ass kisser? :lol:
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #36 on: September 12, 2005, 10:56:00 PM »
I would gladly give my point to those who don't understand my previous post. But I wouldn't want to make them feel stupid by showing them how easy it is, with a couple of logical deductions, to know what my point is. I think everyone is happier this way. The people who have the i.q. to deduce the reasoning at once, some of them may even have snickered involuntarily, well they can go home tonight satisfied that they got it and are not missing out on anything. As for the rest, well, I spared them their self-regard.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #37 on: September 12, 2005, 10:58:00 PM »
how thoughtful of you, and eloquently explained.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #38 on: September 13, 2005, 12:14:00 PM »
sophie, it's interesting that you say you were never able to control your drug use by yourself, and i believe you.  this does not mean you have a character defect, though.  it may be that the drug you used was addictive.  you're probably no different than anyone else except that you exposed yourself to whatever drug(s) you used.  any of us could get addicted with enough exposure, too.

i guess the only defect you, and many of us, might have is that you were curious and willing to try it for whatever reason.  some drugs, like opiates, cocaine, and alcohol in some people, are addictive, and cause changes in the receptors in the brain, such that the person suffers withdrawal when the substance dissociates and is metabolized away.  cravings can persist for months or even longer, and it's not a character defect.  it's chemical.

it sounds like you needed something or someone to help steer you away from a worsening addiction at that time in your life.  you are fortunate you took the path away from addiction.  but i also believe that straight was wrong.  Even though it may have incidentally helped some folks like you in an important struggle you were facing, it hurt all of us terribly, in ways many of us cannot overcome in this life.  long after the straight experience is over, the memories themselves are traumatic and intrusive. so many of us have family relationships that remain ruined specifically because of what straight did to our families.  life's not long enough to repair what so many straight families went through.

it's a shame there weren't better alternative supports and guidance for you at the time, but with straight having a such a stronghold on american politics at the time, there wasn't funding or interest in much else.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #39 on: September 13, 2005, 12:19:00 PM »
i meant to put defect in quotes, because obviously it's not a defect at all to be curious and take some risks.
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Offline shady grove

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« Reply #40 on: September 13, 2005, 01:01:00 PM »
I actually fully agree with one of anon's points this time.

For some of us in Straight, we actually needed some type of intervention. Straight was an inappropriate intervention for anyone, whatever the problem, b/c it did more harm than good. Many of us needed help in our lives and our families, but that help just didn't exist. Some of us were just dumped in there.

On another point:

The "physical" definition of addiction is actually an oversimplification. Except if you consider emotions to be physical/neurochemical  states, which you should. Yes, stimulating a mu-opioid receptor over and over causes a dependence to the mu-agonist. But this relationship is not the only type of addiction. Repeatedly chemically inducing the secretion of seratonin, melatonin, epinephrine, norepinephrine, cyclic monoamine phosphate, dopamine, autogenous benzodiazepines, autogenous endorphins and enkephalins,  and others create new neural synaptic pathways in the brain that are the backbone of addcition.

IE-if you stimulate the chemicals enough, you create a central dependence on this stimulation. You may not necessarily vomit or die or shiver (physically) without it, but you most certainly can be addicted. Drugs stimulate the release of these chemicals very well, but other things do too: food, sex, etc.

Research shows that not all of us are prone to addiction. Certainly curiosity and the desire to experience ecstasy are not "defects of character" or symtoms of addiction. But seeking these things repeatedly (in the face of consequences) to the point where the synaptic pathways have been created is beyond "normal" behavior.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #41 on: September 13, 2005, 07:50:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-09-12 15:53:00, shady grove wrote:

"I believe the anon is the famous RTP.


I can't help but feel you have a personal vendetta. What the problem is? :???: "

Wow, I'm famous!  Good call, sg.  Glad to know my fans are still interested.

Yeah, I guess I do have some sort of vendetta vs. the Stepcult--mainly the fact that they have infiltrated and undermined legitimate drug treatment in this country and others, and were of no help whatsoever, actually counterproductive, when I was trying to overcome a physical addiction to narcotics.  The Stepcult was useless at best, harmful at worst, for me and many others that I have known.  If I had to make a choice between being a junkie again or being a Stepcult believer, I'd break out a needle in a heartbeat.  The damage heroin can do is not nearly as bad, and the recovery rate is much, much higher.




Quote
On 2005-09-12 19:06:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Trust me, RTP has about a hundred more i.q. points than anyone still stuck in the 12-step shit. Now that doesn't make him better than anyone, it just makes him more likely to have something interesting to say. "


How nice!  Thank you for your kind words, anon.
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Offline shady grove

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« Reply #42 on: September 13, 2005, 10:30:00 PM »
Quote

mainly the fact that they have infiltrated and undermined legitimate drug treatment in this country

I am very interested to know what this would be to you.



actually counterproductive, when I was trying to overcome a physical addiction to narcotics


Ok, cool, so you're no fan of 12-step groups, I GET IT

But what about those of us who DO find value in them? I wouldn't sit around dissecting your method of kicking (whatever it was). It worked for you, so great! Ya know?










Quote

On 2005-09-12 19:06:00, Anonymous wrote:


"Trust me, RTP has about a hundred more i.q. points than anyone still stuck in the 12-step shit. Now that doesn't make him better than anyone, it just makes him more likely to have something interesting to say. "




How nice!  Thank you for your kind words, anon."
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Offline shady grove

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« Reply #43 on: September 13, 2005, 10:32:00 PM »
Sorry, I'm still trying to figure out this replying stuff. My last post is in the qoute block above. Whoops.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #44 on: September 13, 2005, 10:56:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-09-13 19:32:00, shady grove wrote:

"Sorry, I'm still trying to figure out this replying stuff. My last post is in the qoute block above. Whoops."


Maybe if you smoked a little grass before posting, it would be easier to figure out (sorry, cheap shot, I know, but I couldn';t resist.....must be my powerlessness or one of my defects of character acting up again)
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