Carlbrook

[Anonymous]

Dear me my apologies of course, but cheers to you TSW you bloody savage colonial, dreadful drink of choice you have no doubt in some pale lager. Ever consider a good gin and bitters?

[Anonymous]

TSW appears to finally be losing it- or have he and Dysfunction Junction finally morphed into one person?  The only harassing done on Fornits is by the regular anti-program posters.  No ST parent stays around Fornits long, and no one has harrassed or threatened anyone. Karen is the one who has been impersonated.  If a parent gives you back what you dish out, they are immediately villified.  
The information on this thread and in this forum is pretty much all crap-whether it is about programs or whether it is attacking specific parents.  Doesn't take much to figure that out.  It is a shame that TSW is unhappy with his life and feels isolated, but calling people names is probably not the way to address these personal issues.  Alcohol is certainly preferable to making a fool of one's self.

[Anonymous]

 No ST parent stays around Fornits long, and no one has harrassed or threatened anyone.

Of course you guys don't stick around here.  You can't spin and control the content and conversation.

Karen is the one who has been impersonated.

yes but only after Karen's mulitple personalities emerged

 

If a parent gives you back what you dish out, they are immediately villified.  

Nah, they're villified because of the sadistic way they treat and view their kids.

The information on this thread and in this forum is pretty much all crap-whether it is about programs or whether it is attacking specific parents.

You just keep telling yourself that if it makes ya feel better hon.

 

 It is a shame that TSW is unhappy with his life and feels isolated, but calling people names is probably not the way to address these personal issues.

Again, why do you assume that anyone who has a problem with these mindrape mills must be unhappy or dissatisfied with life?

 

Alcohol is certainly preferable to making a fool of one's self.

Get over your obsession with alcohol.   :roll:  Karen and the ST drones are the only ones making fools out of themselves.

[Anonymous]

Program parents are just like an older guy who dates high school girls--he's an immature jerk who no grown woman would put up with.  His relationship skills can't stand the light of day with women his own age.

Program parents' have parenting behaviors that can't stand the light of day among normal parents.

Not against perfect parents--we're not.  We're just normal parents, and "average" is a lot higher standard of parenting skills than the Program parents display.

Any normal parent who showed up here would at least be horrified by Tranquility Bay.  Any normal parent would be horrified at the living conditions of the kids there.  Any normal parent, even if they believed their own Program was good and necessary, would stick around and try to shut down Tranquility Bay and some of the other worst offenders.

But Program parents can't stand to stick around at all, because they can't stand to see that they, themselves, are more than half of the problem with their kids, and that they could keep their kids home if they, themselves, would grow up and parent at least to average standards.

Their kids would still be wild, sure.  Their kids would still be royal pains in the butt, sure.  Their kids' antics would still scare them white and give them gray hair, sure.  Wah.  Nobody ever said parenting wouldn't be hard as hell.  It's the toughest job there is.

Using a Program is a cop out, just like it is for older guys to date high school girls.  It's a behavior that can't stand the light of day among their peers.

So they can't stand to stay.
 
Julie

[Troll Control]

But Program parents can't stand to stick around at all, because they can't stand to see that they, themselves, are more than half of the problem with their kids, and that they could keep their kids home if they, themselves, would grow up and parent at least to average standards.

Now this is the salient point, isn't it?  Well said.

[Anonymous]

It is actually an invalid point.  Many parents do own up to the fact that they are a big part of the problem in the family and with the teen. This still does not mean the situation can be corrected without the teen going away for therapy and to be out of the toxic home and community environment.  Julie acts like all it takes is for the parent to say "Oh. I'm a bad parent. Now I'll change and little Johnny can stay home and won't get arrested for drugs and will suddenly want to to to school and won't terrify his little sister with his raging."  
What bothers folks of your ilk (julie, DJ etc) is that there actually are good programs out there and many of the parents who post on ST have success stories. That just makes you crazy, doesn't it?  
You pick on Karen. From what has been posted to the point of absurdity, it appears that she had one kid in a program for one year.  The kid left Carlbrook without finishing the program and went to a boarding school.  He is now in college.  It does not appear that he was abused or that his parents hated him or treated him so badly that he will never get over it.  Unlike you, it very much would appear that the kids of the parents you attack have moved on with their lives in a way you can't even fathom.  As have the parents. The reason they don't stay around this forum isn't because they can't stand to face the terrible thing they did to their kids, but because the forum is such a trash pit of insults and misinformation. A parent might drop by to toy with you for awhile- sort of like playing solitaire on the computer, but it gets boring and they move on.  
My interest in the industry is not as a parent, but it takes about 5 minutes on this forum to figure out that the regular posters are pretty dysfunctional, socially retarded misfits.  The information exchanged privately by members of ST is much more valuable. Contrary to your impression, not all of this information is program-speak.  Many of these parents are extremely intelligent, successful professionals (which is why you attack them, I suppose) and cut through the spin of a program pretty quickly.  You underestimate them.  It would be helpful if you stopped living in the past when there were, in fact, a number of abusive and poor programs for teens.  This is not the case today, and your goal should be to unearth the ones that are still harmful.   Your position that all programs are evil is simply not correct and not supportable. You have destroyed your credibility along with this website by your bashing of all programs and of parents.  All that has been accomplished is to amuse each other, which is really a pathetic statement about your reason for existing.
I know this is a new concept to you, but it really is time to grow up and focus your efforts on something that is more than a figment of your imagination or a desperate need to hang onto past wrongs done to you by ex-husbands, employers or parents.

[Anne Bonney]

It is actually an invalid point.  Many parents do own up to the fact that they are a big part of the problem in the family and with the teen. This still does not mean the situation can be corrected without the teen going away for therapy and to be out of the toxic home and community environment.  Julie acts like all it takes is for the parent to say "Oh. I'm a bad parent. Now I'll change and little Johnny can stay home and won't get arrested for drugs and will suddenly want to to to school and won't terrify his little sister with his raging."  

Then you're not reading the same posts of hers that I am.  It takes much more than just owning up to being a shitty parent and it does not need to include sending the kid away.  It takes actual changes from the parents, not talk and not blaming the kids.  Not the kind like 'oh I fucked up in being to lenient so now it's time for tough love' mentality either.    It's a long process.

What bothers folks of your ilk (julie, DJ etc) is that there actually are good programs out there and many of the parents who post on ST have success stories. That just makes you crazy, doesn't it?  

I've been looking over at ST and I don't really see too much activity over there.  It bothers me that people believe[/b] there are good programs out there.  It makes me crazy that kids are still going through this shit, but you guys?   Nah.

You pick on Karen. From what has been posted to the point of absurdity, it appears that she had one kid in a program for one year.  The kid left Carlbrook without finishing the program and went to a boarding school.  He is now in college.  It does not appear that he was abused or that his parents hated him or treated him so badly that he will never get over it.

I'll give you that it gets absurd at times, but I have to say in Karen's case it's well deserved.  I'd be hard pressed to think of a more pompous, judgemental, conceited, superficial parent that's come on here.  I was out of my program for about 10 years before I finally understood what happened to me in there.  You seem to think as long as the kids aren't being beaten that they're safe.  That's delusional.   You think that there isn't going to be any damage from forcing someone to change against their will.  You think that teens in captivity having enormous power over other teens isn't harmful.  

 Unlike you, it very much would appear that the kids of the parents you attack have moved on with their lives in a way you can't even fathom.  As have the parents.

You have no idea who I am or anything about me other than what you've read here.  How can you justify making a complete judgement about someone without knowing them?  And again, talk to some of the kids after they've been out for a number of years.  

The reason they don't stay around this forum isn't because they can't stand to face the terrible thing they did to their kids, but because the forum is such a trash pit of insults and misinformation.

Yes, insults abound here at Fornits.  No denying that but you need to understand where we're coming from.  Most of us are survivors of extremely abusive programs.  We see these programs today, we research, we listen (I know you don't believe that but we do, well quite a few of us anyway) and what we invariably find is that there really isn't much of a difference between then and now.  Slicker sales pitches maybe, they've honed their marketing skills and scare tactics but that's really about it.

A parent might drop by to toy with you for awhile- sort of like playing solitaire on the computer, but it gets boring and they move on.  
My interest in the industry is not as a parent, but it takes about 5 minutes on this forum to figure out that the regular posters are pretty dysfunctional, socially retarded misfits.

I know, I know.  It's so much easier to dismiss what we say when you see us like that.

 

The information exchanged privately by members of ST is much more valuable. Contrary to your impression, not all of this information is program-speak.

It obviously can't stand up to public scrutiny.

Many of these parents are extremely intelligent, successful professionals (which is why you attack them, I suppose) and cut through the spin of a program pretty quickly.  You underestimate them.  

They're attacked on here because they're intelligent, successful professionals?  What the hell are you talking about?  Why are you people so fucking self-righteous?

It would be helpful if you stopped living in the past when there were, in fact, a number of abusive and poor programs for teens.

Again, you know nothing about me.  I don't live in the past.  I'm worried about what people that believe as you do are doing to kids.  If this shit had stopped when my program was shut down, I wouldn't be here.  but they didn't.  They spun out of control.

 This is not the case today, and your goal should be to unearth the ones that are still harmful.  

This is what you people never seem to understand.  You can't make them NOT harmful.  They entire premise is flawed from the start.  You can't dress it up, tone it down or anything else to change that.  It's fundamentally the same thing.  They all use the therapeutic community approach.  I don't even think that's helpful for consenting adults but I damn sure know it's destructive as hell to a kid with no choice

Your position that all programs are evil is simply not correct and not supportable.

Yes it is.  We've given you research and studies to show that but you dismiss anything that doesn't support your decision.

You have destroyed your credibility along with this website by your bashing of all programs and of parents.  All that has been accomplished is to amuse each other, which is really a pathetic statement about your reason for existing.

Wrong again.  I can think of at least a dozen kids off the top of my head that have been pulled out of programs as a direct result of reading here and then contacting people off the boards.  Shit, I just had a parent, today ask me to email them about Hyde.  

I know this is a new concept to you, but it really is time to grow up and focus your efforts on something that is more than a figment of your imagination or a desperate need to hang onto past wrongs done to you by ex-husbands, employers or parents.

You condescending asshole!  And you wonder why you get slammed in here. :roll:

[Anonymous]

The reason they don't stay around this forum isn't because they can't stand to face the terrible thing they did to their kids, but because the forum is such a trash pit of insults and misinformation. A parent might drop by to toy with you for awhile- sort of like playing solitaire on the computer, but it gets boring and they move on.

Then why have you been coming back for years now, Karen? You cannot even post in first person for some reason, and you can't help but spew lies everytime you post. Sure, there are some pretty weird people here that post here, but no one even gets close to the amount of issues you have, Karen. If you really believed we were a bunch of socially retarded misfits, then why even take the time to write such a long post out, afterall, we are too stupid to understand it. The reason you do that is because you don't believe what you type, but you hate us so much you don't know what else to say. You try to make a somewhat intelligent remark out of an insult, that's all you've been doing for years. That is why everybody hates you, and maybe you don't even know it. You exude negativity, so much so it shows in your posts on the internet.

[Anonymous]

A parent might drop by to toy with you for awhile- sort of like playing solitaire on the computer, but it gets boring and they move on.
My interest in the industry is not as a parent, but it takes about 5 minutes on this forum to figure out that the regular posters are pretty dysfunctional, socially retarded misfits.

Well, at least you don't think I am ugly. I can now sleep at night.

[Anonymous]

It would be helpful if you stopped living in the past when there were, in fact, a number of abusive and poor programs for teens.  This is not the case today, and your goal should be to unearth the ones that are still harmful.

It looks like you're the one living in the past if you believe there are no longer "abusive and poor programs for teens." Look at the ST "Program Questions" forum and you will find posts in just the last few weeks from parents asking about abusive places like Mission Mountain School or Boulder Creek Academy. Some of these parents say things like "my EC recommended this program." These programs DO still exist and sadly, kids who might benefit from real therapy get sent to these torture camps instead. I guarantee you there are escorts on airplanes with kids TODAY who are on their way to these and similar programs. Business is booming.

[Anonymous]

It would be helpful if you stopped living in the past when there were, in fact, a number of abusive and poor programs for teens. This is not the case today, and your goal should be to unearth the ones that are still harmful.

Well, we don't have to search far, we can just look at some of the programs that ST endorses.



I was at Provo, it is abusive. ST endorses it? How does one go about 'unearthing' bad programs, when you were already at a few and were treated like shit, scream your lungs out, and nobody listens. To top it off, organizations espousing the idea of finding these bad programs, are referring kids to them for a financial profit. I am sure there are more abusive programs listed on ST, I just don't have the time to match them up. But just glancing briefly I was able to spot a program I was actually at, and that is abusive. So I don't know what else to tell you. You are supporting a website that profits from the abuse of children, whether you want to believe that or not is up to you.

[Deborah]

We should all "grow up"?
I interpret that to mean, we should think/believe/act as you do?
Now that's one darned "grown up" thing to say.
Victims feel a strong need to evaluate and control, everyone and everything. Might have a look at that.

Was talking to a group of ladies who were lamenting about the trouble they'd had with their teens. Four in the group had used the services of a city funded program called City House. Requires a referral, but all services are free, and ladies ain't poor by any stretch of the imagination.

All thought they were going to counseling with their kid in order to fix him/her. All found out differently.

What stands out is the basic philosophy of this program. The therapist there work to keep the family together and help bridge the communication gap.  No one will ever convince me that this can happened when parent and child are thousands of miles apart. Get to the source of the child's distress [group confessions and humiliation not required] And this really impressed me-  The therpists at CH told these parents that statistics show that a kid who 'veers off the path' is usually off the path for 18 months max, start to finish. Hmmm

One mother shared that her son went 'heywire' and after several months of counseling the source of his distress was revealed. He'd almost died in a motorcycle accident six months prior and hadn't processed his thoughts and feelings around the event.

Really good therapists are about as rare as really good attorneys, but they're out there. As are many effective community programs. If the goal is to get the kid out of the house, those services will be impossible to find.

[Anonymous]

I am not Karen.  I am very curious as to why you think I am. I am not a parent of a teen, but I am very knowledgable about the industry.
You want so badly to believe that only one person challenges you, and that person must be the dreaded Karen.  I have read her posts, and I agree with her, and find her posts to be insightful and not at all condescending.  I think she has many more supporters than any of you do.  My staff laughs their heads off everytime you go off on your Karen tangents.  She has set you up beautifully and created a total break-down any possible logic of your site.
Deborah- it's "haywire", not "heywire".  Perhaps there are some non-residential programs that would work in some instances.  Without being in the shoes of a particular family, it is not for you to judge whether that family made the right decision about treatment for their child.

[Troll Control]

I am not Karen.  I am very curious as to why you think I am. I am not a parent of a teen, but I am very knowledgable about the industry.
You want so badly to believe that only one person challenges you, and that person must be the dreaded Karen.  I have read her posts, and I agree with her, and find her posts to be insightful and not at all condescending.  I think she has many more supporters than any of you do.  My staff laughs their heads off everytime you go off on your Karen tangents.  She has set you up beautifully and created a total break-down any possible logic of your site.
Deborah- it's "haywire", not "heywire".  Perhaps there are some non-residential programs that would work in some instances.  Without being in the shoes of a particular family, it is not for you to judge whether that family made the right decision about treatment for their child.

yeah, you're just the kind of mean-spirited, petty asshole that populates the staffs of this industry.

do you have any clue how incredibly bad you make yourself look with your know-it-all armchair assessments of industry detractors?  probably not.

in any case, the only person who comes off looking like a fool and a complete loser is you.  nice job.  i wouldn't let you anywhere near my - or any - kid.

thanks for the free anti-program advertising.  parents needn't look any further than foolhardy blow-hards like yourself to know to stay away from these businesses.  your quite obviously not any kind of professional from the way you comport yourself and present your understanding.  that's obvious.  my guess is that you're a pee-on night staff at some b-mod shit hole.

[Anne Bonney]

I am not Karen.  I am very curious as to why you think I am. I am not a parent of a teen, but I am very knowledgable about the industry.

Hmm, and how exactly is that?  And what the hell would you know about raising them if you don't have any?

You want so badly to believe that only one person challenges you, and that person must be the dreaded Karen.  I have read her posts, and I agree with her, and find her posts to be insightful and not at all condescending.  I think she has many more supporters than any of you do.  My staff laughs their heads off everytime you go off on your Karen tangents.  She has set you up beautifully and created a total break-down any possible logic of your site.

It's not "their" site.  There are many of us here.  You focus on the easy target instead of having a clear discussion with anyone else who is trying.  That way you can just hurl insults and avoid anything else that is said.

Deborah- it's "haywire", not "heywire".  Perhaps there are some non-residential programs that would work in some instances.  Without being in the shoes of a particular family, it is not for you to judge whether that family made the right decision about treatment for their child.

But you feel completely justified in judging everyone here without having any knowledge of us whatsoever.   Got it. :roll: