Carlbrook

[Anonymous]

On 2006-04-13 08:10:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:


Like many others, she's afraid of being sued, but she's working behind the scenes as we all do - contrary to your belief that all I do is rant on this board.  



If you had an iota of understanding of the work I've put in on this "project" from lobbying congressmen to investigating individual cases of abuse I think you'd actually be proud of the effort.  



For now, I'll just take your insults, but you'll see soon enough.  It's all coming out and everyone who said I was lying is eating their words.  Give it some time...



Say it ain't so if you want, but you'll have to eat it later.
"

Relax DJ, I'm on your side.  I'm not the anon who's been after you here.  I've been following the HLA stuff for a while now and I'm a little irritated that she'll blow her wad in support of that place but when she realizes what's actually being done she shuts up.  Scared of being sued or not, it's called owning up to your mistakes.  She's kept quiet so people think she still supports that kind of shit.  She could be very effective in educating people since she was one of the one's  who really fell for it hook, line and sinker but she's not doing a damn thing.  It wouldn't bug me so much if she hadn't been such a vocal supporter of HLA but she was.  Now it's time to own up to all the shit she wrote and correct any mistakes she feels she made.  It's only right.

[Troll Control]

Yeah, I respect that.  The problem though is that she was blindly supporting the program - that is, she had no real idea of what went on.  The same is true now - she has come around on her opinion, but still can't offer direct comment because she really was never "in the loop."

Like many others, she is genuinely afraid of getting served and having to deal with the disruption that causes in one's life, so I don't think you'll see any public acknowledgement.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-04-13 08:26:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:

"Yeah, I respect that.  The problem though is that she was blindly supporting the program - that is, she had no real idea of what went on.  The same is true now - she has come around on her opinion, but still can't offer direct comment because she really was never "in the loop."

Yet she felt completely justified in commenting on and harrassing anyone who dared question HLA.  Fine if she doesn't want to come on here and post details she has no direct knowledge of but at the very least she should come on here and say that she realizes she's been duped or whatever other excuse she's going to put up.

Again, she could be very effective in actually DOING SOME GOOD FOR KIDS, but remains silent.  How nice of her.  :roll:  :roll:

Selfish people supporting a selfish industry.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-04-13 08:50:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:

"DJ never said she wasn't doing anything. She just isn't doing anything of a public nature. A great deal more goes on behind the scenes that is quite needed for progress towards crushing abusive programs like insects.

Agreed. I still think she has a responsibility to own up to her mistakes.  

I guess the SLAPP suits are working huh?  People allowing themselves to be scared into silence.  I wonder how many kids were left in there because of her comments?  I wonder how many were put there because of her comments?  IMO, she's got a responsibility to address and clarify those comments if she has indeed had this change of opinion.  She and you guys feel differently.....OK.

[RobertBruce]

I have to agree, Shh had no problem shouting from the rooftops how great HLA is, yet when she learns the truth she shuts up?

I dont think that has anything to do with her being afraid of facing a law suit, it has more to do with she's far to full of herself to acknowledge she was wrong.

She should do so and apologize to all of the people she tried to attack on here.

Cant be sued for that now can she?

[Anonymous]

On 2006-04-13 09:27:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:

It is easy to post on a message board. When that posting on a message board has possible long term consquences on your offline life I hardly see anything wrong with person weighing out the odds.

She wasn't worried at all about the kind of damage being done to kids in there while she was touting it's success.  My reasoning is that since she was part of the problem, part of the responsibility for the solution falls on her.

You're right though, ultimately it IS up to her.  I just think it speaks to the person she is.

[Anonymous]

How did this turn into a discussion of some HLA supporter and her new love for DJ?

This is a Carlbrook thread.  Yes, they use a program based on workshops. As has been discussed, these are non-abusive and the kids value them highly.

Karen's kid left the program early because he was admitted into a regular academic boarding school for the next fall and the Carlbrook staff kicked him out since he was a "short-timer".

[Anonymous]

On 2006-04-13 09:55:00, Anonymous wrote:

"How did this turn into a discussion of some HLA supporter and her new love for DJ?

agreed, let's take that part of the discussion to the HLA forum.

This is a Carlbrook thread.  Yes, they use a program based on workshops. As has been discussed, these are non-abusive and the kids value them highly.

In your opinion they're non-abusive.  Some of us, with our vast experience with these kinds of places, are well aware of the severe damage the "workshops/seminars/levels" etc. can and have done to kids.  That's a major red flag all by itself.

[Badpuppy]

You see, whether or not your son screws up again has nothing to do with the hypothosis of my arguement. That is that the government reviewed all of the known research in this area and concluded that residential treatment is ineffective and possibly harmful. The fact that you think I desire harm for your son is PARANOIA. If you really did have an MSW, particularly from a prestigious university, you would read the studies and tell me the flaws in research design, methodology, and why their conclusion about all the research to date is wrong. The fact that with an MSW you so cavalierly dismiss the government conclusion speaks to the fact that your real purpose is to market Carlbrook. When anybody tells me that the program saved their life that is a big red flag for me, because it is the program speaking for  
them. I don't know you, and I don't know your family, but I am skeptical of your version of the events you have mentioned in the forum, particularly because you disparage the most objective research available. You have an MSW, or so you say. You have the ability to read the research and critique intelligently. [ This Message was edited by: Badpuppy on 2006-04-13 10:04 ]

[Troll Control]

This is a Carlbrook thread. Yes, they use a program based on workshops. As has been discussed, these are non-abusive and the kids value them highly.

Nobody ever gave the details of the workshops.

One, have you been in a student workshop?

Two, how can you speak for all kids?

Three, if you know that they aren't abusive, please give a "blow-by-blow" on the nature of the workshops (please refrain from saying things like "They're about friendship and relationships" - that will only show you don't know what goes on inside the workshops).  Give a rundown on all of the details.

-How long are they?
-How many kids?
-What do they do?
-What "exercises" do they engage in?
-etc.

[Troll Control]

On 2006-01-23 21:34:00, Carlbrook Graduate wrote:

"It's funny how most of the things being brought up in this forum are things I myself brought up while at Carlbrook... to parents who may send your children to these schools, I challenge you to take the time to do the research on the negative aspects of these programs.  The workshops they use (another name for LGAT) have no long-term psychological benefit.  In fact, many LGATs have induced psychotic breakdowns.  They try to piss you off as much as possible, then make you break down and cry.  They are a school.  They make large sums of money.  Do the math.  There are over 100 kids at this school.  Each student pays over 100,000 for a 16 month program.  Many great regular boarding schools charge this much for about 4 years of school.  The average staff member does not make a lot of money.  When I was there, they crammed 5 people in a dorm room originally meant for 2 people, yet continued to state that they weren't about the money."

Not a rosy review from this graduate.

They try to piss you off as much as possible, then make you break down and cry.

Inducing psychic distress is abusive.

How do you explain this type of abuse?

[Troll Control]

Using the therapeutic terms I've become so well endeared with, I now experience negative thinking and depression much more than I did before- to the point where I am thoroughly anti-social and confused about everything. The issues that were brought up in the Workshops (see LGA) constantly pervade my thoughts. I question myself much more so than I used to and all of my actions. I have become a much more indecisive personality and question my every motive, my every choice. Many people have said you are free to walk away at any time. This is true, but you are also forewarned and constantly threatened with wilderness and much more emotionally distressing programs. Many children are forced to take medication.

This graduate feels that Carlbrook was abusive and detrimental to his development.

Forced to take meds?  How can a "school" force-medicate a child?

[Anonymous]

The Rico Moreno letter presents an opposite opinion. That poster you just quoted didn't finish the program. He walked off.  It doesn't work for everyone. It didn't work for him. It does work for many kids and is highly valued.
The workshops are done by peer group, so there are about 15 kids in each one. They last a day or two. The parents were put through a mini-version and it is quite powerful. They do focus on different aspects such as integrity, friendship, loyalty etc. They are designed to allow you to get at who you really are inside.
My kid hated most everything about Carlbook, but loved the workshops.  Crying because you have discovered a truth about yourself or finally found the strength to be honest with someone else is not abusive.  It is just a display of intense emotion.  The workshops ARE intense.  That is why they are so effective.

[Anonymous]

"This graduate feels that Carlbrook was abusive and detrimental to his development."

That poster was NOT a graduate. He left the program and returned to worse drug use than before he entered (by his own report).  Don't pick and choose information with a deliberate intent to mislead.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-04-13 10:30:00, Anonymous wrote:

"The Rico Moreno letter presents an opposite opinion. That poster you just quoted didn't finish the program. He walked off.  It doesn't work for everyone. It didn't work for him.

Straight out of a page of 'how to defend the indefensible".  Just claim that it only works for a few "special" people, ya know...those that completely buy into the bullshit and would rather be caught dead than to dare speak of the atrocities commited in these "seminars".


 

It does work for many kids and is highly valued.

Can you please provide any proof that these "work"?  We've provided evidence that it does damage.  The only "proof" that we've seen you all provide is anecdotal.  That's not proof.

The workshops are done by peer group, so there are about 15 kids in each one.

That's another red flad.  Putting 'troubled kids' in a position of power over others is just asking for trouble.

They last a day or two. The parents were put through a mini-version and it is quite powerful.

No doubt they are.  Incredibly powerful.  Powerful enough to get people to change their entire belief system without a shred of proof that such changes will have any positive effect whatsoever.  Pretty powerful stuff which is precisely why it's dangerous in the hands of untrained staff and 'troubled' kids.

They do focus on different aspects such as integrity, friendship, loyalty etc. They are designed to allow you to get at who you really are inside.

How exactly do they accomlish this?

Crying because you have discovered a truth about yourself or finally found the strength to be honest with someone else is not abusive.  It is just a display of intense emotion.  The workshops ARE intense.  That is why they are so effective."

Again, no doubt they're effective but at what price?