i was in TLC

[StaffSergeant]

No I did not experience anything like that.  I came to work for thayer because honestly I wanted to try and make a difference.

I had been working with teens for quite a few years.  While in High School there was a progam I was a councelor for that would help teens stay away from drugs and other things.  We would teach the teens how to work with each other and how to get a long with each other.

I am not going to continue going back and forth with you guys.  I have told you how I did things at thayer.  If there were other Drill Sergeants that did things diffently I did not see it or I wasn't there when it happened.  When I ran my shift I tried to do the best I could.

I truly do wish that all the employees would go through a tougher hiring process so we could avoid a lot of these problems.

[Nihilanthic]

Is there a reason I STILL dont have a clear answer why mind-numbing forced exercise and humiliation is going to help a kid at all?

How the fuck does it have ANYTHING to do with "staying away from drugs and other things"?

The fact is the fact, the program is evil, and every attempt to make
chicken salad out of chicken shit has resulted in a Chicken shit
sandwich, No pickle on the side could ever change that.

http://fornits.com/anonanon/video/bingo.ram' target='_new'>BINGO!

[Anonymous]

niles, i believe the sargeant was giving his honest recount, and many of us happen to agree with him. Your statements are often grossly over exacturated. So much so, that most ignore your comments, and you would argue with a brick wall anyway.

[Nihilanthic]

On 2006-01-19 10:07:00, Anonymous wrote:

"niles, i believe the sargeant was giving his honest recount, and many of us happen to agree with him. Your statements are often grossly over exacturated. So much so, that most ignore your comments, and you would argue with a brick wall anyway."

He still never answered my qestion, and neither have you.

NOBODY has explained how forced exericise and humiliation is helpful for 'troubled teens' except simply declaring that it is themselves! It also doesnt matter how I phrase it, the facts are still the facts.

Also, considering the way drill seargants talk to people in bootcamps... what the fuck does how I say anything have anything to do with it when THEY insult and humiliate children while they exercise themselves to exhaustion and then say its good for them?

Oh, and youre right, I am arguing with a brick wall.  :roll:

There's only one party on Capital Hill and it's the bipartisan spending party.
http://www.cagw.org/' target='_new'>Tom Schatz, president of Citizens Against Government Waste

[Anonymous]

because the cadet is no longer "in charge", and will earn respect.  Niles, you go on like your a mutant ninja turtle and all, but you'd most likely fail your first day of any bootcamp, because your mouth would get the best of you, and sir you definitely have a problem with that. As well it did with many of these cadets. Not much different than the military. And before you answer again, these teens are near adulthood, and being accountable for their own actions through choices they make.  Your the histerical, over-dramitic one, as clearly shown in each comment you make.

[Nihilanthic]

On 2006-01-19 13:50:00, Anonymous wrote:

"because the cadet is no longer "in charge", and will earn respect.  Niles, you go on like your a mutant ninja turtle and all, but you'd most likely fail your first day of any bootcamp, because your mouth would get the best of you, and sir you definitely have a problem with that. As well it did with many of these cadets. Not much different than the military. And before you answer again, these teens are near adulthood, and being accountable for their own actions through choices they make.  Your the histerical, over-dramitic one, as clearly shown in each comment you make.  "

I asked someone to explain why forced exercise and humiliation is useful or helpful or "good" in any way, not to be subjected to an attempt to humiliate me from yours truly.

Also, how is.. forced exercise and humiliation going to hold them accountable for "choices they make"? Why did you have to regurtitate a damn industry catchphrase?  :smokin:

Education is a better safeguard of liberty than a standing army.
--Edward Everett

[Nihilanthic]

Niles, you go on like your a mutant ninja turtle and all, but you'd most likely fail your first day of any bootcamp, because your mouth would get the best of you, and sir you definitely have a problem with that.

I figured this was worth its own reply.

Basically, what youre saying is "dont question anything, dont talk back, dont assert yourself, do as told by and get with the program", right?

Hey, small fuckin' wonder why people with their own mind and free will strike out on their own instead of trying to serve the hive? And for that matter its no surprise why I raised your hackles!

DAMN, DAMN shame you cant try that shit in person, isnt it?  :rofl:

The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins; all of them imaginary.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0679728953/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'> H.L. Mencken, 1923

[Helena Handbasket]

I see the same question being asked, but no one with such a distinguished Thayer education seems to be able to come up with the answer, and much less, acknowledge the question.  

Wonder why that is? ::

My view is that if there is no evidence for it, then forget about it. An agnostic is somebody who doesn't believe in something until there is evidence for it, so I'm agnostic.
--Carl Sagan, American astronomer and author

[Anonymous]

because it's false question. That means that the words in the question are so one-sided it cannot be answered.  Niles went from brain-numbing forced excercize, to forced exercize.  Neither are true. The cadet can choose to exercize or not. However, this puts pressure on his/her fellow cadets, because they want him/her to give it their best.  The peer pressure makes the cadet try, and they soon regognize they can achieve,which gives them the boost they need, in self-pride, to start achieving good things, that before they THOUGHT they couldn't.  Because many teens come in thinking they have control over everything,  they must now get on the same level as their peers, and earn respect and work hard to advance.  That's not brainwashing, abuse, or forced anything.  It's goes with life.  Most people who damn this place, #1 know nothing about it, #2 are obviously very hostile to life in general themselves, #3 have not respect for others, #4 look negatively at everything, #5 have no real outlook for themselves and very low on their own self-esteem.  It's obvious in the what you write and the way you think you have to express yorselves. Niles, I don't personally have anything against him, but is one pessimistic person.  His speech is terrible, has no respect, and just really doesn't care about anyone but himself.

[Anonymous]

I must agree with the last poster.  Such biased questions, demanding of answers, leads one to believe, that there is no way to answer it that would enlighten the inquirer.  It seems to be a form of getting the respondand to answer, only to pick and choose words or phrases, that can be taken out of context to scruitinize, in order to get a pre-determined outcome of the inquirer.  Therefore, regardless of the response to the question, it would make no difference. Such narrow minded views, and strong minded opinions, without any basis of personal knowledge of your actual complaint of the program, is merely an attempt to lead others to your own particular point of view. If you return to the previous posts, in which the ex-sargeant was describing his past personal experiences, he neither paraded or degraded his tenure while at TLC.  He simply have a non-biased account of what happened. And he defended his reasoning and tenure. There was no need for that person to over dramatise any statements, nor challenge any person who debated.  That speaks for itself. Watching this forum, I often wonder, from all of the people complaining, what do YOU do, to help troubled teenagers?  What is your great contribution, aside from this silly forum.  Yes, many of these teens have stepped over the line, and are currently involved in the court system. Somewhere along the way, boundaries were not identified or enforced. Regardless of who's fault. Life has boundaries.  From many posts it sounds like many would just say, let them alone and do what they want.  However, the parent, judges, and police, have determined that is leading to disaster, and is a good indicator of the parental instinct taht something must be done.  The people that have over 100 posts on this forum, taking that big stand, and so strong in your "skipping through the daisy field of life" attitude, I would have to question. Some have anger management issues, from programs that they may/may not should have attended. Some went, but didn't graduate. Some, like Niles knows absolutely nothing about anything.  
 
Opps.  He has good grammar most of the time, but logic is completely absent.

[Nihilanthic]

:rofl:  :rofl: youre obviously the same anon!

Jeeze, wont you give it up?

It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are 20 gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
--Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat

[Anonymous]

(niles)...will you give up?

[Nihilanthic]

Not until I get a clear answer as to why humiliaton and forced exercise (with the apparent goal of exhausting the mind as much as the body) is good for kids or useful in any way when dealing with "troubled teens", instead of people trying to change the subject or obfuscate by calling humiliation "peer pressure so he gives it his best" and tell lies such as the "cadet has a choice to participate"  :roll:

The newspeak is getting old and so are the excuses. This isn't some feel good "GIVE IT YOUR BEST!" recreational sports event, its exhaustion, various punishments and humiliation and some asshole in a uniform and a hat pulled down too low spewing obscenities and saliva in your face, if not physically beating you or "restraining" you.

I also guess that "group consequences" does not result in "cadet" on "cadet" violence, either, right?

If this was about some kid being motivated to try and to eventually succeed.... uh... why not just play sports or make something? Why have the whole sensitivity training schtick and bootcamp bullshit?

To go to Journal of Applied Polymer Science go to http://www3.interscience.wiley.com and then journal search and put the journal number and year
-- Journal of Applied Polymer Science  Vol. 47, 1984

[Helena Handbasket]

On 2006-01-20 15:00:00, Anonymous wrote:

"because it's false question. That means that the words in the question are so one-sided it cannot be answered.  Niles went from brain-numbing forced excercize, to forced exercize.  Neither are true. The cadet can choose to exercize or not. However, this puts pressure on his/her fellow cadets, because they want him/her to give it their best.  The peer pressure makes the cadet try, and they soon regognize they can achieve,which gives them the boost they need, in self-pride, to start achieving good things, that before they THOUGHT they couldn't.  Because many teens come in thinking they have control over everything,  they must now get on the same level as their peers, and earn respect and work hard to advance.  That's not brainwashing, abuse, or forced anything.  It's goes with life.  Most people who damn this place, #1 know nothing about it, #2 are obviously very hostile to life in general themselves, #3 have not respect for others, #4 look negatively at everything, #5 have no real outlook for themselves and very low on their own self-esteem.

Do either of you "anons" have a psychology or a related degree?  You may know PROGRAMS, but so little beyond that, you're making me giggle before I've had the first cup of coffee.

Because I do have a psychology degree, and I can tell you right now, mass punishment for the sake of one makes the team try not to get punished, which is the basis for broad-scope brainwashing.  If you knew anything about "Behavior Modification" and it's applications, you couldn't spew such shit about "respect" "self-pride" and "achievement" - all Program Buzzwords.

It's obvious in the what you write and the way you think you have to express yorselves. Niles, I don't personally have anything against him, but is one pessimistic person.  His speech is terrible, has no respect, and just really doesn't care about anyone but himself. "

Good thing I'm not drinking coffee - I'd be snotting it outta my nose!

Everybody's lost just waiting to be found. Everyone's a thought just waiting to fade.
-- Billy Corgan of The Smashing Pumpkins

[tlcrescue]

try checking out a website called http://www.difficult.net

I bought the book and it is very interesting reading, and has some very non-traditional ways to getting through the "out of control teen", just as the book describes.  Unfortuntely, teens that have become out of control, in reality, are that way because parents allowed them to be.  Once the teen gets to this level, traditional methods no longer work.  The most important thing in trying to keep your teen on the right path is to let them know there is a consequence (whether good or bad) for every action.  You have to put in place the consequences that work for your teen, and not every same consequence will work the same for every teen.  Simply abusing a teen mentally, forced exercise, and denial of simple privileges such as food and bathroom is not the way to correct one's misbehavior.  Even in the real world, parents have an OBLIGATION to provide adequate food and shelter for their child, without subjecting them to harm.

PLEASE do not consider sending your child to a boot camp, TLC or otherwise.  With time and commitment, you CAN correct the misbehaviors of your teen.  But, you have to be willing to stay the course.  The behaviors were not learned over night, nor will they be corrected over night. Once you have made the decision to correct the misbehaviors, you have to stay the course and don't back down, no matter how hard it gets emotionally. Believe it or not, if you follow recommendations such as they outline in the book, things WILL get better.  Mind you, they will probably get worse before they get better, because you have taken the control away from your teenager, and are regaining control of your household.  No one likes to give up control, but a teenager does not need to be in control of the household, they don't know how to be, even though they think they do.  They just need to be kids, and let us parents be in control of the household.  Once you have managed to regain control, your teen will not be spending so much of their time and energy trying to keep that control, and will be free to live their life as a normal teenager should, and will find they, as well as you, are MUCH happier!  I will be happy to discuss with anyone some of the methods we have used.  

After I removed my son from TLC, I made many excuses and allowances for him because I felt guilty of what I let him endure while at TLC.  Eventually that guilt took over our household.  My son was not a violent child, drug user, gang member, or ever even in trouble with the law when I sent him to TLC.  I have seen the error of my ways by (1) sending him to TLC; and (2) feeling guilty over it.  After putting those feelings aside, and dealing with issues that have come up since his release (using methods as outlined in the book), the transformation has been amazing!

I would be more than happy to discuss this with any parent that would like more information, or to simply find out how it worked for us.