Author Topic: Who 'IS' Paul?  (Read 3794 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Who 'IS' Paul?
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2005, 12:10:00 PM »
Whoahhh... that explains a lot now.

I've seen that done on people, it ain't pretty afterwards.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2005, 02:47:00 PM »
bumpity bump!
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Offline Paul

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« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2005, 03:02:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-07-02 09:01:00, 001010 wrote:

"Well Deb, your information certainly does correlate well with this PM Paul sent me.   :eek:


Of course my history correlates to my statements.

Sorry if you offended by the word mental. I don't know origin of the word, but it has been around a long time.

I think I also sent you another private message, hmmm, private message, what a concept, eh. Anyway
my other private message was that, for me, I reduce the power of the illness by making jokes about it, and episodes. That is why I was asking you about those various support groups. To see if they had the same positive effects on you.

If there is more mystery to my comments, you can ask me to clarify, rather than create some lame conspiracy.

Oh, I won't be posting your PM, out of courtesy and confidentiality, of course.
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or those who don\'t understand my position, on all subjects:

* Understand the law and your rights.

* Make sure you have the freedom of choice.

* Seek and receive unbiased information and
know the source of information.

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2005, 08:28:00 PM »
So, as to the original issue, are you going to comment or keep acting like a coward?
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2005, 09:55:00 PM »
Does it depend on what the definition of the word 'IS' is?

The first human who hurled an insult instead of a stone was the founder of civilization.
--Sigmund Freud

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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2005, 03:37:00 PM »
From Dr. Ty Colbert's book Broken Brains or Wounded Hearts: What Causes Mental Illness on Hemingway and depression.

"It is even more revealing, and tragic, to see how Ernest Hemingway, who suffered from extreme bouts of depression, wrote about the electric shock treatments he received, his 'brilliant cure':

'What these shock doctors don't know is about writers and such things as remorse and contrition and what they do to them.  They should make all psychiatrists take a course in creative writing so they'd know about writers...  Well, what is the sense of ruining my head and erasing my memory, which is my capital, and putting me out of business?  It was a brilliant cure but we lost the patient.  It's a bum turn, Hotch, terrible.'

Hemingway was quite aware that the shock may have rid him of his symptoms of depression by erasing his memory, but it did not produce a permanent cure.  What's worse, he found that his ability to write, the most important thing in his life, had been damaged.  In 1961, a few days after being released following a second ECT series, he killed himself with a shotgun.

Hemingway, who took his life because of his depression and the effects of shock treatment, perhaps said it best:  

'The world breaks everyone, and afterwards many are strong at the broken places.'

As human beings, we have a responsibility to each other, and we can't let the medical model circumvent that responsibility lest we lose the glue that holds our society together:  the healing of each other's wounded hearts."
**********

A friend of mine who teaches Intro to Psych said the textbook mentions Hemingway's depression but fails to mention ECT. I particularly appreciated his comment about them destroying his 'capital'.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2005, 12:40:00 PM »
Paul, I'm sorry I've left you to face Deborah's pervasive, obnoxious ignorance alone.

You're right, she's wrong, she's a total flake, but I just flat could not take one more minute of the woman.  I've said what I think, and there's no point in belaboring it any further.

I break that silence only because I don't think you deserve to get crapped on without a word of support from someone else whose beliefs are also in the mainstream of mental health.

I won't be replying to any replies, I'm bored with her ignorant, fringe crap.  I just logged back on to catch up on any *real* news in the industry after reading about the lawyer who used to represent Brown(?) until they positionally asphyxiated his son and is now suing them.

But I don't have better things to do that give you this single message of support.

Hang in there.

Timoclea
(You know, after a certain amount of time trying to argue with someone who's obsessed with a conspiracy delusion, it becomes awfully tempting to just throw up your hands and trust to other people's bullshit detectors to sort it out.)
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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2005, 02:21:00 PM »
Unfortunately, the lawyer settled for an undisclosed amount of cash and moved to a farm in Tennessee. The settlement was thought to have been a significant factor in Brown filing bankruptcy.
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Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2005, 09:11:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-08-12 09:40:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Paul, I'm sorry I've left you to face Deborah's pervasive, obnoxious ignorance alone.



You're right, she's wrong, she's a total flake, but I just flat could not take one more minute of the woman.  I've said what I think, and there's no point in belaboring it any further.



I break that silence only because I don't think you deserve to get crapped on without a word of support from someone else whose beliefs are also in the mainstream of mental health.



I won't be replying to any replies, I'm bored with her ignorant, fringe crap.  I just logged back on to catch up on any *real* news in the industry after reading about the lawyer who used to represent Brown(?) until they positionally asphyxiated his son and is now suing them.



But I don't have better things to do that give you this single message of support.



Hang in there.



Timoclea

(You know, after a certain amount of time trying to argue with someone who's obsessed with a conspiracy delusion, it becomes awfully tempting to just throw up your hands and trust to other people's bullshit detectors to sort it out.)"

Geez, Timochlea.  That's a bit harsh, isn't it?

She's not obsessed with a conspiracy delusion.  She was confronted with an actual conspiracy.  

The program in which her son was enrolled wields an amazing amount of de facto power in rural north Georgia.

The owner of the facility is a big cash cow political contributor.  The folks he supports outright circumvented the law regarding this facility and Deborah's parental rights as such.

How else can you explain an unlicensed, unaccredited facilty alternately billing itself as a treatment center and a boarding school, depending on the inquiry?

Do I think one can extrapolate this experience to the ENTIRE treatment industry?  No, I surely don't.  But it is a common modus operandi for the so-called "TBS" segment.  

You read this board.  How many parents in how many states have had nearly the EXACT same experience of having their parental and legal rights subjectively and extrajudicially extirpated at will by a non-governmental entity like a TBS for chrissake?

I think you need to reexamine your comments here and/or lighten up...
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2005, 11:59:00 AM »
DJ, Timoclea's talking about a slightly different issue; rampant overprescription of psyche drugs for often bogus dx.

Tim and Paul seem convinced that there is no big problem in the psyche industry. Deb turns up a good deal of documentation to the contrary. Evidently, that meets their criteria for a free psyche dx.

Either cocaine and marijuana are terribly dangerous substances, and breaking the law by consuming them is a major offense that should be severely punished, or these are minor, personal matters that do not really count in the big picture of a man's life. If the latter is the case, then the rationale for a bloody, costly and futile war against drugs simply disappears.
--Jorge G. Castaneda, Newsweek International, September 6, 1999



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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2005, 01:59:00 PM »
Ginger summed it up nicely, while I was off searching for some links. My take on it was that Tim, and later Paul, were threatened by the information (and ocassional opinion) I shared on the fraudulent nature of Psychiatry. Both stating at different times that they feared the 'anti moonbats' would take away their right to take drugs. When challenged, they could never produce proof of their claims, so instead resorted to attacking me personally. Paul went so far as to suggest I was a Scientologist, a mouth piece for the organization.

Culminated when I made this comment:
I was content to post information about the industry that people may not find otherwise, and pretty much as it pertains to young people. I made NO derogatory comments to you (or Tim) until you/she attacked me personally, rather than refuting the information I had posted.
Should I have ignored the personal attacks? Yeh, probably. But I?m not a saint. You and Tim both have used the 'bipolar' excuse for your rudeness. Having a psych dx sure hindered my nephew from learning the social skills he desperately needed- what I consider to be the crux of his 'problems'.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 260#113981

Because I used 'excuse' rather than 'reason' Tim then decided that I was a Bigot, and posted a couple of lengthy rants before she departed suggesting, among other things that I 'fuck off and die':
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 280#117974

The 'disagreement' started with this interaction:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =100#50900

Went downhill from there. In this thread I am labeled a paranoid flake, tinfoil hat moonbat, with fringe, conspiracy beliefs.
CABF
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 38&forum=9

Several other thread on MH/Drugs in which we had disagreements:
Bush plans to screen whole US population for mental illness
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?So ... =9&start=0

Mental Health Screening in Schools Signals the End of Parental Rights
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?So ... =9&start=0

Involuntary Commitment?Notice Any Similarities
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?mo ... rt=0&Sort=

FDA warning on SSRIs
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?So ... =9&start=0

SSRI's and Depression in Children
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 84&forum=9

ADD/ADHD/Meds
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 39&forum=9

Dexedrine for 4 year-olds
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?So ... =9&start=0
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gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2005, 10:35:00 AM »


Maybe T should join him under his light?

Seems VERY mainstream to me...  :roll:

Todays version of snake oil salespeople.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2005, 08:02:00 PM »
Patients often have burden of deciding on treatment

By Jan Hoffman
NEW YORK TIMES NEWS SERVICE

August 14, 2005

Nothing Meg Gaines endured had prepared her for this moment. Not the six rounds of chemotherapy for ovarian cancer that had metastasized to her liver. Not the doctor who told her, after Gaines was prepped for surgery, that he could not operate: A last-minute scan revealed too many tumors.

"Go home and think about the quality, not the quantity, of your days," he said.

Just about out of options, the 39-year-old lawyer and mother of two toddlers faced an excruciating decision. Her last-ditch chemotherapy regimen seemed to be working. Three medical oncologists thought she should stick with it. But two surgical oncologists thought she should first try cryosurgery, injecting liquid nitrogen in the tumors to shrink as many as possible, and then following up with chemotherapy.

The catch? Gaines' chances of even surviving the procedure were uncertain.

"Who will decide?" she asked a surgeon from Los Angeles.

The doctor recited what has become the litany of medical correctness: "We're in the outer regions of medical knowledge," he said, "and none of us knows what you should do. So you have to make the decision based on your values."

This is the blessing and the burden of being a modern patient. A generation ago, patients argued for more information, more choice and more say about treatment. To a great extent, that is exactly what they have received: a superabundance of information, often several treatment options and the right to choose among them.

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As this new responsibility dawns on patients, some embrace it with a sense of pride and determination. But many find the job of being a modern patient, with its slog through medical uncertainty, to be lonely, frightening and overwhelming.

The job of being a modern patient includes not only decision-making, of course, but often coordinating doctors, medical records and procedures, as well as negotiating with insurance companies, who are often the ultimate arbiters over which treatment options will be covered.

Like many patients, Gaines did not turn to a primary care doctor to help coordinate her care or aid with decisions. Increasingly, that soul-healing, doctor-patient relationship has become harder to sustain. Whipsawed by insurance plans, patients frequently switch physicians. Pressed by diminishing reimbursements, those doctors are building ever larger, more unwieldy practices, with less time for each patient.

A generation ago, most of the diagnostic tests that monitored Gaines' cancer did not exist. Nor did the range of treatments. After the cancer had been found, most likely her primary care doctor or local oncologist would have told her what to do. And she would have obeyed.

Until the late 1960s, patients perceived doctors, then almost exclusively white men, as unassailable figures of authority. During the social and cultural upheaval that ushered in the women's rights, civil rights and consumers' rights movements, however, the paternalistic authority of the physician became deeply suspect.

And with the introduction of Medicaid and Medicare in 1965, health care began to be seen as a right, not a privilege. Patients repositioned themselves as consumers of health care, entitled to as much information as possible. Support groups sought to empower patients with booklets and questions for doctors.

In response, many patients became insatiable consumers of medical information.

The drive to become better informed has been fueled, in part, by the array of options that often accompanies diagnoses, many so new that gold-standard treatments, backed up by randomized trials, have yet to emerge.

But hope is a potent elixir. Patients with good insurance or other financial resources have quickly learned how to find medical centers that could offer them the latest procedures, like the cryosurgery Gaines sought out, which then had no long-term experience behind it.

A patient's research does not have to be any more extensive than turning on the TV. The eruption of pharmaceutical advertising has introduced millions to medical conditions that were once discussed only in the privacy of a consultation and to the promises of new approved treatments. And inevitably following these promises was the prompt: "Ask your doctor."

At the same time, medical science itself was widely perceived to be in a Renaissance period. Basic research in fields like biotechnology received deep bipartisan federal support. As the results continue to unfold, patients with major and minor health problems can choose from an array of options: some good, some bad, some redundant and some virtually miraculous.

Whether patients make a decision by themselves or at the behest of a doctor, the fact that the choice was theirs has become known among bioethicists as patient autonomy ? the right of governance over one's own body. The term is symbolic of the pendulum swing away from the paternalism common through the 1960s. Patients began seeking second and third opinions.

By the 1980s, opinion-seeking could even turn into doctor-shopping for specific procedures. Patients began suing doctors, an escalating conflict leading to, among other things, high malpractice premiums, congressional debates and, in the examining rooms, overcautious conversations between litigation-alert doctors and patients.

Within the past decade, the shift in the doctor-patient conversation ? from, "This is what's wrong with you, here's what to do," to "Here are your options, what do you want to do?" ? became all but complete. Baby boomers had gotten what they had asked for. And then some.

"People want to feel a part of their health care," said David Mechanic, a medical sociologist at Rutgers University. "But they don't want to be abandoned to making decisions all on their own. When a doctor says, "Here are your options,' without offering expert help and judgment, that is a form of abandonment."
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