Safe Harbor www.alternativementalhealth.com/

[Paul]

[I started this thread in the wrong section. I believe it should be here instead - Paul]

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?So ... 07&forum=9

generally use drugs as a first practice
Posted: 2005-06-14 23:15:00    There is no forced medication in the State of California in county mental health system's,
nor the prison systems.

In rare cases, only in involuntary treatment
situations, after a Reese Hearing is there
any "forced" medication.

All patients sign an informed consent document.
If they don't want meds, they don't receive any -
period! End of story.

---

If Wendy, or you Deborah, or any of the Anti-crowd
would do some actual activity like helping people,
attending meetings, and understanding the programs then you would know that the programs being discussed are "programs" not medical protocols.


Frankly, it is hard to spend time on this issue with you. There is so much content out there on
what evidence based practices are and the documentaion of medications and the protection of
consumers to make their own choices that if you
want to keep ignoring these facts, then you are
simply a useless gadfly!

Perhaps I will post my question once again, in a new topic ... has Deborah helped anyone at Fornits?

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Paul
A regular around here

Joined: 2005-03-30
Posts: 163    "Paul does not speak for Safe Harbor."
Posted: 2005-06-14 23:08:00    Wow, what a profound statement!

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Post URL: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=D#109929

Paul
A regular around here

Joined: 2005-03-30
Posts: 163    Posted: 2005-06-14 23:05:00    I just noticed this post from you Deborah:

Paul, you said:
Safe Harbor is having a non medication conference
in June. I offered to get the folks at Safe Harbor going with the Mental Health Services Act for funding, but they where not interested. I tried ...
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =40#102890

Safe Harbor was interested in the taxpayer approved fund for improving the mental health system in California. I spoke to the president and one of the board members. They declined furthur help when I let them know that only evidence based practices are to be funded. Apparently they did not have proof that their non-pharma solutions worked or they would have asked for money.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 190#108648

****
Why would you "try? to set them up with MHSA funds if you knew the funds only go to ?evidence based practices?, or as Wendy understood, to ?government-run agencies??

How is "evidence based" defined? To your knowledge, is there any ?evidence based? alternative (non-drug) treatments, other than therapy?

I contacted Wendy at Safe Harbor and here is her response, which I post with her permission. As you will read, her understanding is that the funding had nothing to do with "evidence-based practices." :

Paul does not speak for Safe Harbor. He had suggested a possible funding source to myself and Dan Stradford, president of Safe Harbor. I personally checked out the government funding possibility; however, from what I found, it is only for government agencies, not private nonprofits like Safe Harbor. As the fundraiser for Safe Harbor, we of course, would love funding, but this idea suggested by Paul was a dead end unfortunately.

It has nothing to do with "evidence-based practices." (Paul never mentioned this to me personally. He simply sent me the URL's to check out.) This is government money for government-run agencies, which generally use drugs as a first practice. Safe Harbor is trying to change this of course, and move government agencies toward nondrug alternatives. There is some interest in the area, and we are continuing to push for nondrug treatments and practices.

For information about Safe Harbor, please check our Web site at AlternativeMentalHealth.com, contact me at [email protected]. Thanks.

Wendy Bolt
SAFE HARBOR
787 W. Woodbury Rd., #2
Altadena, CA 91001

---

I "tried" to set them up per a request from a mother, who is also a doctor who desperately wants
her son off of medications.

Dan said, oops, via email, stated he was interested.

I never dialogued, oops, emailed with Wendy, I don't know who she is.

I don't this she researched Prop 63, or she could not have made this statement:

"I personally checked out the government funding possibility; however, from what I found, it is only for government agencies, not private nonprofits like Safe Harbor."

If she, or Dan would have asked me, or anyone for a clarification for something they did not understand in the new California law there is plenty of availability to have it explained.

They didn't asked, they made an incorrect assumption and most likely the "evidence based" part of the law scared them off.

Deborah, how is it that you, the Scientologist, Safe Harbor and the other anti-psychiatry folks
are so turned off by "evidence based"?

[Paul]

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[Paul]

When people want help in a non-pharmaceutical
treatment plan for mental health care I refer
them to Safe Harbor as well at Naturopathy.

Many programs are not evidence based, it doesn't
mean that they should not still be utilized. It
just means that the organizers have not chosen
to put their program under scrutiny and for
those funding sources that require validity and
fidelity measures via evidence based practices
non-evidence based practices would not qualify.

[Deborah]

Pauly,
You appear so wishy washy.
How can you make comments such as this:
They didn't asked, they made an incorrect assumption and most likely the "evidence based" part of the law scared them off.
Deborah, how is it that you, the Scientologist, Safe Harbor and the other anti-psychiatry folks
are so turned off by "evidence based"?

And then claim to refer people to them?

If there was any confusion on the part of Safe Harbor in the understanding of the Proposition, why didn't you follow up and explain? Better yet, when you CONTACTED THEM why didn't you spell out the criteria for funding? You do seem to enjoy wasting people time and attention.

First you erroneously accuse me of never citing Safe Harbor- as if I've some kind of organized alternative mental health clearing house- then divulge that they didn't qualify for the funds because they are not 'evidence based'... and now that you refer to them.  :rofl:

It sometimes feels like I'm interacting with more than one person... sure they got your dx correct?
Really Paul, you don't make sense. Your positions, points, intention is not clear.

[Deborah]

Why did you duplicate this topic here Paul? The discussion in THI was just fine. In addition to wasting people's time and attention, you also waste bandwidth. Ginger, should move it back to THI.

Rather than duplicate it here... you can read Wendy's final comment in the origianl thread.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 210#110296

Hear this Paul, "Final" means that I am no longer the go-between. If you have something to about or to her, you have her contact information.

[Paul]

Deborah,

I refer people to the best programs that I know of.

You are funny, I can see why you are only a gadfly
and do not work with patients.

You are frustrated acting as a go between to Safe Harbor and myself.

Who asked you to do that? Not me.

You took it upon yourself and posted, what twice.

Oh my, Deborah, stick to your computer and posting
if you ever started helping the mentally ill with such a low tolerance for work you might melt down.

I started this thread about Safe Harbor so it would not be buried in another thread. Also so that all Fornit's viewers could see it. Now, was
that so hard to understand.

Rest Deborah, rest.

[Deborah]

You make way too many assumptions Paul.
Frustration is not the issue. They would rather deal with you directly.

So, do you plan to duplicate your responses in both forums? You gave no notice in the THI thread about moving the discussion here.

And your ignorant comment about 'working with patients'?
That's not my line of work Paul. And it doesn't need to be in order to justify my sharing information about the industry, specifically how it affects children. How are you using 'gadfly' Paul? What's the burr in your butt? How many times have you told me outright to stop posting? Now you've started a poll to find out how influential "I" am at Fornits. What is your vested interest in people not having access to ALL information?
YOU rest, and gain some tolerance.



[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2005-06-16 05:04 ]

[Paul]

On 2005-06-16 04:43:00, Deborah wrote:

"You make way too many assumptions Paul.

Frustration is not the issue. They would rather deal with you directly.
---
Wendy sent me an email directly. I answered her question. I had some ideas for her how they might
utilize MHSA funds. All is well. No agnst here, or there.
---



So, do you plan to duplicate your responses in both forums? You gave no notice in the THI thread about moving the discussion here.


---
I think those that want to follow a Safe Harbor thread can. That is all. No problem for me here either.
---

And your ignorant comment about 'working with patients'?

That's not my line of work Paul.
---
It is pretty obvious that you don't work with nor help people with serious and persistant mental illness. It shows.
---
And it doesn't need to be in order to justify my sharing information about the industry, specifically how it affects children.
---
Do you have children?
---
How are you using 'gadfly' Paul?
---
You make comments criticizing those you know little about, promoting things you know little about, and offer no workable suggestions and in your life donate no time to those you are trying to influence. Try helping the mentally ill, and we will see if your opinions won't change.
---
What's the burr in your butt?
---
I don't like it when someone wholesale condems a treatment protocol when freedom of choice should be respected. You have an alternative, post it, let people know, but don't slam other treatment plans.
---
How many times have you told me outright to stop posting?
---
Not enough times.
---
Now you've started a poll to find out how influential "I" am at Fornits. What is your vested interest in people not having access to ALL information?
---
You just won't listen to what I am saying. If you would stop criticising other treatment protocols other than your own, that would be fine. You are constantly slamming opinion others than yours rather than providing alternative, suggestions and hands on examples.

You can't provide hands on examples because you are just a gadfly = posting stuff, not doing anything.
---
Perhaps the thread requesting input to how valuable or not relavent your posts are would be welcome by you. I guess not, eh?

[Deborah]

I suggest you post a poll on how helpful YOUR contributions have been Pauly, and stop the organized attack on me.

You also post articles which state the opinions of those you appreciate. Along with your opinions, which happen to differ.

Give it a rest. You're a damn control freak. People will have access to information that the likes of you will not provide them.
I will continue to post articles that expose what the psych industry is doing and proposes to do to children. People have a right to know. You keep doing whatever it is you do, that you feel is damned important.

[Paul]

I would be very comfortable if you would
post articles teaching people something,
rather than criticizing.

Anyone can criticize. That is the easy part.

Posting content people can use, that would
be good. I wouldn't complain if that was
your style.

Complainers, nah, I have no use for them ...
Do you?

[Paul]

Deborah, I missed your answer.
Do you have any children?

[Deborah]

Yes Paul, I am a mother/grandmother.

[Paul]

Wonderful, there is nothing more important
than those two roles ... congratulations!
 
Both my marriage's where with ladies who
where unable to have kids. One due to
endomitriosis and the second due to
Budd-Chiari syndrome. So I have not
had the good fortune of being a dad.

[Deborah]

Who ?IS? Paul? Curious?
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... m=9#114154

[Paul]

I received this document from Safe Harbor today for review in regards to the Mental Health Services Act.

Here is a snippet to an email regarding this protocol:

The protocol is calld the Field Manual; it does not screen for everything, but it can find a majority of illnesses that might
otherwise be overlooked in a majority of patients, who can then be referred to a doctor to treat the illness(es) found. You can view the entire Field
Manual on our Web site at
http://alternativementalhealth.com/arti ... manual.htm.
I can also send you a hard copy.