How can you trust anything joyce harris says when she puts

[mouse]

On 2005-06-12 14:35:00, Antigen wrote:

"

On 2005-06-12 13:30:00, mouse wrote:


"Ah, I see.





But let me ask you this.





Is the justice system necessarily right all the time? Isn't part of this site about corruption of government and society? Correct me if I'm wrong. It's your site and I haven't been through everything on it."

No, the justice system is not always right. However, Utah authorities have shown a pattern of extreme bias in favor of the troubled parent industry. In the rare event that even they are forced to concede that a program is over the top, it's like... well, like 3 Supreme Court justices arguing in favor of medical marijuana; it's pretty hard to argue to the contrary.

Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.
--Philosopher, Blaise Pascal

"

So... what's your point in this, that almost no program can be shut down because the state doesn't want to admit it made a mistake?

Not trying to be smart alek (this time), just seeking to understand...

[Anonymous]

On 2005-06-12 13:07:00, mouse wrote:

"

On 2005-06-12 12:44:00, Anonymous wrote:


"CHARGES HAVE BEEN PRESSED!!!!





AGAINST: Cheryl Sudweeks for Child Abuse!!!!"

Really? If so, why haven't I heard anything about this in the news?"

Uh .. because you are misinformed AND misguided?

 :wstupid:

[mouse]

So while I read cnn.com for news and take guidence from my family, friends, and books, I really should be keeping up-to-date on a public forum for discussing problems with programs? Wow, now it hits me. We better call BBC about this one...

 :roll:

[Anonymous]

On 2005-06-12 17:04:00, mouse wrote:

"So while I read cnn.com for news and take guidence from my family, friends, and books, I really should be keeping up-to-date on a public forum for discussing problems with programs? Wow, now it hits me. We better call BBC about this one...



 :roll: "

The UK is quite familiar with behavior mod programs in the U.S. and how they work. One writer even got into Tranquility Bay and wrote about what they saw and heard.

[Antigen]

On 2005-06-12 14:51:00, mouse wrote:

So... what's your point in this, that almost no program can be shut down because the state doesn't want to admit it made a mistake?



Not trying to be smart alek (this time), just seeking to understand..."

No, I don't think you're being snide at all. And it's a very valid topic of discussion. I don't think all the good ppl of Utah or in the Utah government are evil people working some private agenda. A conspiracy of that size and scope and of this long duration would necessarily fall apart. It's not that.

"From the bottom of any large organization looking up through the ranks, human greed and stupidity look a lot like a conspiracy."
--S. Gilbert

Honestly, I think the troubled parent industry is a product of our ongoing culture war. It might be easier for me to see it and at least have an inkling what I'm looking at just because I came up in So. Florida (read redneck utopia) starting way back in 1965. In those days, the principal of the elementary school could and would still spank a kid. I even remember when teachers could slap a kid upside the head w/o filing a single piece of paper or notifying the parents. In fact, the last thing any kid wanted was for teacher to tell mom and dad that they'd been disciplined in any way!

So now things have changed. Right or wrong, all of our old, tried and (presumed to be) true methods of getting our kids to behave have been outlawed and replaced with... nothing. Nothing at all. People are at a loss.

I think that's what's behind the tacit approval from all of officialdome of these programs. We see the question posed around here over and over again; "Well, what would you do? We tried shrinks and counselors, drugs and threats, indulgance and everything else you can imagine, what should we do???" And it's a sincere question. What the questioner doesn't understand is that this particular solution is no solution at all. There's a HUGE difference between being hit, threatened, berated and humiliated in a group setting by strangers who say they love you and who demand that you pretend to love them and discipline, however imperfect sometimes, but the only mom and dad you'll ever have.

If something sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

WHEN SPIDERS UNITE, THEY CAN TIE DOWN A LION  
-- Ethiopian Proverb