FEAR ITSELF

[MG]

I found and contacted, or rather wrote an e-mail to, which received no response thus far.   Ha, imagine that?  They were cowards then to say ANYTHING to my face and they are still apparently the same cowards all these years later. Mr. Cleveland had the right idea sneaking out in the middle of the night.  What do they ever say to you?  So what the F would you say to them.  Well, I want to say it Decades later.  Hey, Terri Meyers kiss my royal ass you self centered arrogant Biatch.  You know you were maybe ten years older than me.  Give me those ten years and I would have been running circles around your head and would have laughed at your intimidation tactics.  You acted so damn tough and you thought you were funny.  Funny?  I did too, till I got to know you!  An ass YOU ARE.  You still remain in my mind as one of the most stuck up $&%&% I ever new, you and your little dog too.  You know who I mean. You used a girl as your lap dog, and she used to slather on your face.  KISSING you over and over and hugging you, and literally sitting in your lap, even when you were driving AND YOU LOVED IT!  In my later years I wondered if some of the girls were gay and it just went over my head???  I know you had something to do with my leaving and since you don't want to bother to write me back like the Peon you treated me like when I was there. I will stuff it up your ass here if I can.  I hope you get this message!  I have a child now that is older than what I was when you did what you did to me.  You called yourself, "wanting to help people," and got paid for it?  At least I was sincere in practicing what I said, ............YOU never spoke to me or even asked me how I was, or tried to include me.......EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.  YOU got your rocks off acting like you were better and I was invisible.  Were you jealous of me in some way?  Could you not stand having someone watch the truth every day?  I couldn't have cared less about anything but you staffers liking me you had me so f'ing brainwashed......that and my work, and you made sure you took that from me didn't you biatch.  I was climbing the ladder very quickly in that company because I was smart and I worked hard.  You made sure you and your dumb girlfriend got rid of me didn't you.  You treated the NEWCOMER like rat shit.  YOU NEVER EVER SPOKE TO HER EITHER.  THE TWO OF YOU NEVER SPOKE TO EITHER OF US IN THE CAR ON THE WAY TO WORK OR HOME 20-30 MINUTES EACH WAY!!!!  I USED TO FEEL LIKE I WOULD SHRIVEL UP AND DIE, AND BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T TALK TO HER OR ME SHE WOULDN'T TALK TO ME EITHER.  IT WAS LIKE BEING A HORRIBLE PRISONER.  WHAT KIND OF GOOD INFLUENCE WERE YOU SUPPOSED TO BE?  WHY DIDN'T YOU JUST GO SOMEWHERE AND LICK EACH OTHER? YOU AND LeANN.  DID YOU GO AND BLAME ME FOR LOOSING THE NEWCOMER JUST BACK TO WORK, HUGH YOU SORRY BITCHES?  WHY DID LIBBY AND ART KEEP SAYING WE KNOW WHAT YOU ARE UP TO?  THEY HAD NO PART OF MY LIFE.  I TOTALLY BLAME THEM TOO.  FOR ALL THOSE YEARS OF TOTAL DEDICATION NOT ONCE WAS I EVEN TOLD WHAT I WAS BEING ACCUSED OF.  YOU ARE SICK STEPFORD CHILDREN AND YOU OWE ME A FUCKING APOLOGY IF YOU ARE LISTENING.  YOU ARE SO TOUGH AND BAD ASS SO WHERE ARE YOU'RE BALLS NOW?  FACE A WOMAN AND NOT A CHILD. IF THE SEARCH ENGINE HERE IS CORRECT THEN THERE ARE A LOT OF GUTLESS WONDERS WATCHING BUT NO ONE IS POSTING.  FDR:" THERE IS NOTHING TO FEAR BUT FEAR ITSELF".  IF YOU SIT QUIETLY IN MY OPINION YOU ARE JUST AS DAMN GUILTY....."OH NOT ME, I WON'T SAY ANYTHING. WHAT IF SOMETHING HAPPENS TO ..................ME?" ...MEMEMEMEEMEM ............ WELL THEN YOU DESERVED WHAT YOU GOT.  NOT--------NO ONE DESERVES THAT, BUT YOU CAN'T JUST SIT BACK IN FEAR A PRODUCT OF YOUR ENVIRONMENT.  PEOPLE CAN ONLY DO TO YOU MOSTLY WHAT YOU LET THEM GET AWAY WITH, AND IF YOU SIT THERE SAYING, "OH THAT'S SO TERRIBLE,"  WHILE THEY DO IT TO THE NEXT GROUP OF KIDS AND SAY .........NOTHING...........THEN ROT IN HELL WITH THE REST OF THEM BECAUSE YOU KNOW, AND YOU ARE JUST AS DAMN BAD THEN FOR LETTING THEM GET AWAY WITH IT.
THERE ARE LAWS FOR ACCOMPLICES TO CRIMES WHY SHOULD YOU, OR WOULD YOU THINK IT DOES NOT APPLY TO THIS TOO?
I READ SOME SITES HERE IN THIS LAST WEEK SINCE I FOUND THIS AND, I AM APPALLED AT THE INHUMANITY TOWARD CHILDREN IN SOME OF THESE PLACES. FUCK THE SEED AND MY SLIGHTS..... HA.......... SLIGHTS...........HA........ HAHAHA
O.K. SO I AM TRYING TO MAKE A LIVING TOO AND HAVE NO TIME FOR THIS BUT IF I CAN FIND TEN FIFTEEN MINUTES IN MY DAY TO DO IT SO CAN YOU AND GET UP AND AT LEAST SAY SAY SAY SAY -SOMETHING.................... CAUSE YOU AINT DOIN' SHIT.  I DIDN'T KNOW REALLY TILL THIS WEEK AND IN CASE YOU THINK I AM BLOWING SMOKE OUT OF MY ASS I HAVE A LITTLE PICTURE PLAQUE OF ME IN THIS TOWN FOR MAKING A DIFFERENCE, AND IT WAS FOR HELPING KIDS AND PEOPLE IN NEED AND I DIDN'T MESS WITH THEIR HEADS I GAVE THEM THINGS TO MAKE THEIR LIVES A LITTLE BETTER FOR A SECOND........SO WHY IS EVERYONE LOOKING AND NOT SAYING SHIT?
??
??

P.S.SUCCESS STORY MY ASS.  I HAD NO DRUG PROBLEM WHEN I WENT THERE EXCEPT A LITTLE WEED!!!!!!!!!!!  I WENT THROUGH MANY YEARS OF TOTAL HELL TO BE IN THE PLACE I AM IN TODAY....IF ANYTHING, THE SEED PUT ME IN A BUBBLE THAT COST ME A LOT OF PAIN IN LIFE.
I AM GOING TO SAY WHAT I THINK AND THEY CAN JUST BRING IT ON.
WHERE ARE ALL THE LOOKERS?  I KNOW THERE AREN'T THREE PEOPLE ON THIS SITE.?

OH YEAH, AND UP YOURS TERRY MEYERS

WHO ARE YOU? IN A CAREER TO "HELP PEOPLE"  DON'T LOOK BACK AT THE PEOPLE YOU BETRAYED!
LOVE,
MARY

_________________

[cleveland]

Whew! I am laughing all thru the post because it's so real and honest and heartfelt. Even if no one ever responds to it, it's got to feel good to get it out there.

I doubt you'll ever hear from any of the 'perpretrators.' It's true, they were taught to think they were better than us and so they could act like they were 'the shit' - you think they're going to cop to that years later? No way. It would be a shocker.

Good for you for having a son, starting a business and helping kids in your community. That's the real deal - not sitting on a stool in a warehouse full of kids lording it over them...

And I know there were staff there who sincerely wanted to help; but wasn't it tempting to look down on all the poor newcomers, and 'grunt' seedlings who did most of the scut work?

[Stripe]

Dear Mary,

I too have felt your rush of anger, hate, and resentment; feeling just sick about the time and life that was stolen from me.  

When I read postings by seed supporters I just get sick to my stomach - because they still refuse to acknowledge the damage that this kind of programming causes.  The fact is, you may never get an apology from the actual people who hurt you. In fact, I would be shocked if that happen. Other supporters, not this LeeAnn, will tell you it was  based on "good intentions" but that does little to help you get through your shit right now.  

Aren't you glad though, that no matter what the conditions were of your leaving, that you did leave?  I got "kicked out" of a subsequent seed/religious cult.  I felt so lost, so friendless then.  Good seelding/christians refused to talk to me or acknowldge me on any meaningful level - besides telling me they would "pray for me..." I was a poor misguided soul trying to make it in the world without group think.  It broke my heart; I lost my best friend because I was so fucked up myself trying to live the good seed life.  Two young women in incredible pain and doubt - our friendship (which started when we were 13) was ruined by the seed.  

Yeah, I can surely understand and appreciate your fuck you all attitude towards these theives. It tempers with time. I was so fucking angry last fall when I figured out what had happened to me.  I spent 30 freaking years trying to undo someting I never really understood. Now I do get it.  I get that is was a cult, that it thrived on mind control programming and that for whatever reason, I caved to pressure.  

And, like you, I could not stay true to the regime. Probably the reason they gave you no reason for kicking you out was because you were thinking for yourself.  They knew they were losing their hold on you and to give you that information on the way out would, in their twisted ways of thinkning, somehow damage the greater good - The Seed. I would guess that anyone who was formally kicked out of The Seed was infact, thinking for themselves.  That's the threat. You did nothing but use your god-given brain.  Fuck them.

Raging and yelling - that's what this forum is for - and I think we all go through these stages, greiving for the time and life we lost because of our involvement.

And by the way, I think the whole boy/girl separation did cause some very weird sexual tension in people.  It seemed to force us to adopt same-sex contact as a release for our natural sexual energy at those early ages.  

Feel free to PM me if you want to.

[Ft. Lauderdale]

Stripe were you actually at the Seed??

[Stripe]

Why do ask if I was "really" in The Seed?  What lunatic would say so if it weren't true?  

Trust me, I would not claim so if it were not true. I'll see if my parents still have a receipt for the money they spent. Or maybe you'd like testimonies from the various friends and relatives I managed to completely alientate back then.

Maybe it was different when you were there. Maybe you liked it and think it was great. I was in from March 13, 1973 on the program till I graduated in the requisite 4 months, then old timer activity until mid-74. That was when I got caught up in the "spritual" side of the torture.

That reference to seed/christian was what happened in my high school. It kind of morphed from just plain seedlings thinking they were far better than everyone else into christian/seedlings who continued the superior attitudes reinforced by being "saved".  

Apparently I couldn't get enough of the exclusivity that cult groups provided.  Joke was on me though, as I ended up alienating almost every person in my life. [ This Message was edited by: Stripe on 2005-05-27 14:32 ][ This Message was edited by: Stripe on 2005-05-27 14:38 ]

[Antigen]

Stripe, are you talking about The GreenHouse? If so, you'd have to remember Jimmy Grinnis and his magical tamborine.

Errors, like straws, upon the surface flow;

He who would search for perls must dive below.

Prolougue (from preface to
the Panther Book)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0510337112/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'>John Dryden, All for Love, Prolougue

[MG]

I don't actually expect an apology. What a joke to think someone like that would be capable of such.  I just hope She hears me, or of it.  I would love a frigin explanation that's for sure. Even if anonymous.  You may be right also about the control thing.  I had started to not just drive straight to the seed after work but would drive around in my car a little for a minute to myself......doing absolutely nothing.  Maybe an extra twenty minutes. So they took the car away. I think the one thing I did was play with myself.....LOL.  You are very right about the sexuality thing.  Where the hell were all those teenage hormones supposed to go?  No interaction with the opposite sex really. Helped me a lot in life........yeah right!!!!!!!  I married the third asshole I met and then serviced his cars, wrote his letters, washed his clothes, cleaned his house, made his meals, worked full time managing an office and came home and gave him every dime I made becasue, "we were saving for our future".  Thank God the same way the seed threw me out with no explanation I caught him cheating and got out.  This is a man who never touched me from the DAY we were married and I would have stayed and did for one year like that....a slave.  Just like the Seed, and someone sit there and tell me that had NOTHING to do with the brainwashing the SEED did to me??  I left the SEED at 20, was with the guy by 21 and married by 22.  I was a virgin that lived in a bubble. A total sitting duck.  The same as you here I had nothing in my life.  NO FRIENDS at all.  My childhood friend refused to ever speak to me again for what I had done to her.  We grew up living next door to each other and then I refused to ever speak to her again and she never forgave me. I understand many seedlings married each other.......isn't this kind of like inbreeding???  I have had to deal with a lot of drug addicts in the area I am living in.  I don't tell them, piss off I love you.  That and the shirt and the pin was nothing but advertising for the seed.  Maybe I would not have had the strength to hang around with people like that and not be influenced but isn't that what they should have been teaching.  You can't hide under a rock in life. I treat everyone exactely the same.  I am no God to judge who is good enough to deserve my respect as a human being and say they are shit because they have a problem. It went like this...."I don't want to have anything to do with you unless you go to the SEED and get straight. I love you"  Not, I would like to be your friend but really can't associate with you when you choose to lead the life you do.  Please find some kind of help for yourself or put your life on the right path becasue you are worth it"  NO let's put EVERYONE in the SEED........more MONEY FOR ART!  And if you care so much then why not sell the YACHT AND THE LIMO AND HELP SOME KIDS THAT HAVE NO SCHOOL CLOTHING, WHICH I SEE EVERY DAY.  MY POOR MOTHER, VERY POOR AT THE TIME, RAISING FIVE KIDS ON HER OWN PAID FROM A REAL ESTATE DEAL $4,000 FOR ME AND $3,500 FOR MY BROTHER--SECOND KID DISCOUNT.  Art Barker was busy out golfing.  He never really sat down and talked to any of us and asked, so what are your goals, your dreams?  He was out golfing and dining, and boating, and was rarely ever there.  Also I was no sucsess story either.  I went through years from 21 to maybe 30 where I did my share of playing with C.
Let them play with the dogs.  That is better suited to them.  Now they have something to control that won't think for itself.  Aslo, if you think there is not a lot of money and government funds in what they are doing now think again.  How many links do they have to donate?  Oh, and the free sandwiches for everyone thing really cracks me up!  I guess they haven't lost their touch on getting the rest of the world to pay their way.

[Antigen]

On 2005-05-27 16:52:00, MG wrote:

Thank God the same way the seed threw me out with no explanation I caught him cheating and got out. This is a man who never touched me from the DAY we were married and I would have stayed and did for one year like that....a slave. Just like the Seed, and someone sit there and tell me that had NOTHING to do with the brainwashing the SEED did to me??

I did the same gig twice. The second time, when I got it, was easier to digest. The SOB knew, to some extent, what he was doing to me. The first time was harder. He was not that bright, didn't get it, just running on instinct. And I had his child; much of my reason was very much a quit pro quo.  The first time, I knew I could do better and thought I was doing him a favor (that he would repay by fidelity) by taking this needy soul in. The second time, I thought he was doing me a favor for some good reason. But, when the bill came due, I wasn't willing to pay in lifelong servitude. Had enough of that riot act already.

I met a true soulmate when I set out to make my own way and happened to find a fellow traveler who was about the same task. Could have done it w/o him and he would have done just fine w/o me too. But this has been fun and mutually comforting. For once, a major life decision of mine has played out for 20 years and I'll be damned if I can find a mistake in it.

I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life, I absenteed myself from Christian assemblies.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father and inventor

[MG]

Hey Ginger,
I did the same in that I had his child.  He was never a father to him and I raised him alone with no support although he was from a wealthy family.  What you said about him being aware of what he was doing to me.........I asked him why don't you ever kiss me or touch me from the day we are married.  His reply was, "If I had acted like this before would you have married me?"  I said, "No". He said, "Well there, you have your answer."  He intended to procure himself a slave and thought once I was pregnant I was a prisoner for life.  Thank You, that I reverted back to my stronger self from the hardships I went through as a kid, and he provided me with the very excuse I needed.  I think I had a very strong need to "take care of someone" to give me purpose and he was perfect...like I was his mother.  It was beyond a nurturing quality of a woman, to a houskeeper/slave. Not only the way I grew up but being given the HONOR of cleaning the SEEDS toilets, ect. all those years............great training for self esteem...........hahaha I still get accused of being "Mother Mary/Mother Goose", which I like but it is much different today-----------I think.  From all you put in here and on this whole site I suspect you are much the same, but at least the dedication today is for something constructive and not some trained robotic response for exploitation by the rich!  The church needs a new Mercedes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!The preacher need a new Yacht.......donate to my favorite cause ME!  That is how I view Art and Libby...........phony whore mongers.
At least we got the kid:)

[cleveland]

Oh yes, I had the bad marriage too. Although at first it wasn't too bad, it got worse over time because she was a needy child (I needed someone to take care of, someone to need me) and then she became an angry woman, blaming the world for everything, and thinking she was justified in taking whatever she wanted. She certainly did from me. I though she needed me, and was I shocked when she walked out the door, taking all of our savings with her (I worked and supported her in going to two different schools, two different careers, thinking once we get her settled it will be my turn. Guess what - it was never my turn!) When she left, I got right back on my feet and I have lived a good life. I am happily married today, knock on wood, and have a baby. Life is great. But I too came from a disfunctional, messed up family and at 19 I was desperate for validation, support, meaning - and what I got was being told what to do and that I was a lazy, selfish, into my head druggie. Little bits of self esteem were dribbled out to me over time, but I never was able to stand on my own two feet. Yes, and the sexuality control left me with little  awareness when I left the seed at 26, hungry for love and so little resources. MMG, you tell it, girl!

[marshall]

Wow! Great post, mg. Many of us here understand your anger. I found that a lot of my own was really anger at myself for being so powerless and being duped by the seed so easily. I had to forgive myself. I was just a kid and probably would have fell for the same line of crap from any cultish group. Anyway, thanks. Oh, & that was a great imitation of Yoda meets the Wicked Witch of the West too!

<"Funny? I did too, till I got to know you! AN ASS YOU ARE.'>

<"You still remain in my mind as one of the most stuck up $&%&% I ever new, YOU AND YOUR LITTLE DOG TOO.">

[Stripe]

Ginger,

That place I got involved with was in Boca Raton, FL and was called Koininia, agape house.  It was run by woman named Paula Carlson, who was apparently fucking the boys and, with the exception of a few trusted females,was undermining every girl or young woman involved.  Man, if I actually wrote what when on there, no one would believe me. Man was it ever a sick place.  The Paula Carlson woman was such a skank that even her self-righteous thoroughly CHRISTIAN husband divorced her nasty ass.  She was another cult guru, albeit, on a very small local level.

MG, Marshall and others:

And as for the succession of failed relationships, I experienced my share of failed or abusive or sick relationships the rest of you have thus-far experienced. Professional diagnosis post-Seed:extreme neuroses and severe depression. Made it hard to function in the real world.

I think the only ting that saved me when I was 25 was the birth of my son.  It gave me a real cause to live for, because before that time, I didn't see my life as being of value to any one.

Like the rest of you, over the years, I have worked hard to make my own way in the world and frankly, I am proud as hell of what I have accomplished thus far.

And people say that The Seed was a good place and that those who have experienced a life time of pain, hurt and degredation need to "get over it".  

Under the guise of this newage (sewage)sprituality movement we are now told that we somehow allow our past to continue to intrude on the present - that we want this pain, that wwe have some need to continue to relive it.

A person is the sum total of all experiences, good and bad. The lesson I have learned ?  That there are some bad, evil fuckers out there whose main purpose in life is to exert control over the free will of innocents.  And inevitably, it always follows the almighty dollar.  We were not anything more than pawns in a money game to Art, Shelly,Libby, this recently found-out Perloff jerk and all the other fuckers on that syncophant-staff-director train.  

This bullshit "sprituality" is just another cult that suggests a very simple way of not acknowledging the abuses that occurred.  After all, to acknowledge the mind control would require SEEING IT A SECOND TIME IN THE RECOMMENDED SEWAGE SOLUTION... No fucking thanks.  My head has been screwed with enough in this lifetime.

Perhaps it did not happen to some people, but that sure as hell does not negate the fact that it happened to others.

I note that some on the here have referred to themselves as prisoners of war.  A very true and accrate statement. Except for our government and the sewage sprituality movement, I doubt any thinking person would tell a prisoner of war to "get over it" ...
Remember the fallen from all wars, including the Drug War.

Best of the day to all you.

[MG]

Hi there again.........
I actually do not blame myself at all for what happened to me there.  You shouldn't either.  I have a grown son and have spent a lot of time around children that were the age we were.  They are so completely impressionable.  
Why do you think the SEED had an age limit?  I believe it was twenty-one with only a few exceptions. I spent Memorial Day taking some photos of a park near me that is a true hazard to children and many of the children playing were about our age.  There are drug dealers nearby---blocks away, a year or two older than them.  They will either be productive citizens, or drug dealers/addicts these children.  They are like an open slate. Art and these other organizations took, and are taking that open slate and making it thier living. Is a child that is molested responsible for the choices that the molester seduces or forces them into making?  I don't think so!  Definitely not by our laws.....so why is the RAPE of a childs mind acceptable, and how would that child ever be culpable?  Hitler turned out youth groups in droves, and turned children against thier own families.  Look on eBay at the prices for coveted photos of such!  What is so damn different to turn out an army of children to wear your flag to school and march blindly to your tune?  He admidately used the children to help campaign for congress. I remember ART saying about Hitler's Military Youth that, "They took young people and played drums and they marched blindly, and did what they are told."  What was so different?  Let's all sing along.............THE SEED INDEED IS ALL YOU NEED TO STAY OF THE JUNK AND THE PILLS AND THE WEED.  WE COME EACH DAY FROM 10 TILL 10, AND THEN WE GET UP AND WE DO IT AGAIN.
You were never to blame!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MG]

ALWAYS FOLLOW THE MONEY
IT TELLS THE STORY BETTER THAN ANYTHING!
GREAT POINT.

Bye the way I knew John when he was just a sweet inoccent guy excited to be reuinted with his freinds and Cindy was just a bubbly little huggy bear.

WHAT A CRYING SHAME!
Capatolistic freeked out cult organizers.  Who would have ever guessed.  Thank's ART!  Beautiful lively souls for capitol gains.  Congrats you evil ass piece of garbage.  They are culpable now though, being ADULTS?